| Motherboard Advertising and DRAM Compatibility |
| Articles - Opinion & Editorials | ||
| Written by James Reece | ||
| Friday, 28 September 2012 | ||
Motherboard Advertising and DRAMI’d like to open by thanking Benchmark Reviews for the opportunity to contribute to their website. While building a desktop computer can be daunting, it's not really that hard of a process and with a little instruction most anyone can build a system. I have clients in their 80's that now build systems and my sons built their first PCs at ages 7 and 5 respectfully. Benchmark Reviews goes to great lengths to provide information that will help all builders, both first time builders and long time Professionals. There are however, things that can make the decision making process on what to use/buy more difficult. One of the biggest roadblocks (and one of my Pet Peeves) is advertising done by motherboard manufacturers as to DRAM compatibility. Picking out components for a new system build can be fairly straightforward and simple; many often look first to the CPU, then to motherboard and DRAM as the primary components. There's one component in particular that really bothers me, and not so much the component itself - but the advertising that typically accompanies it, the Motherboard, in particular, the advertising concerning the DRAM. It's that advertising which leads to what I believe, are the most common problems that occur in new builds (and also in upgrades). I get numerous calls from clients about DRAM/motherboard issues, and while hitting the various hardware and vendor forums I frequent, I see these issues on a daily basis. Another place to see where these problems occurred is in reviews on motherboards at a place like NewEgg or other large re/e-tailer that allows customers to post product reviews....people are always complaining about DRAM not working with their motherboard. And why is this? Generally the basic advertising, as pertains to their motherboards (mobos) and DRAM compatibility is rather generically provided. A few things to know when you look at a mobo's specs are the frequencies (freqs) that the motherboard can handle or its MEMORY STANDARD and the total DRAM (memory) that the motherboard is capable of handling. Let's say on motherboard brand ACME XXX, it is advertised as running: 1333, 1600, 1866 (OC), 2133 (OC), and 2400 (OC) frequencies. Take note of the ‘OC' by the higher listed frequencies. This implies that an OverClock (OC) of the system will be required to achieve said freq/speed. This OC may include the CPU itself and/or other things like the FSB, CPU/NB, HT, BCLK, etc depending on the type of mobo. Many people don't know this and just tend to think that ONLY the DRAM itself needs to be OCed. Another thing they advertise is the Maximum Amount of DRAM the motherboard can handle. These days on newer mobos it generally ranges from 16 GB (2 8GB DIMMs) to 64GB (8 8GB DIMMs) (there are some X79 that state support for 128GB (8-16GB DIMMs) of DRAM. So, you buy an ACME XXX motherboard and its advertised for up to 32GB of 2133 DRAM. You may simply go by what's advertised or may even go and check the QVL (Qualified Vendors List) for DRAM for your particular motherboard of choice. This is where it can get very interesting, for a number of reasons. A few of them are: 1. They never mention what CPU was used for testing, which normally is the most powerful available for the mobo. So YOU NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH to ensure your CPU is capable of running the DRAM, particularly with AMD CPUs, many have an extremely hard time running even 2 sticks of 1600, the newer FX CPUs are supposed to be able to run 1866 (they advertise 1 stick per channel) and while the 8150 can run that and possibly even faster, going to 4 sticks can be troublesome. Also not all CPUs are equal, have seen plenty of 8120 that can run 1866, and even more that can't, unless you want to cook things in your case.. 2. Many motherboard makers would like you to believe that their QVL (Qualified Vendors List) is Holy Grail of what DRAM to buy to run with your mobo, and nothing could be further from the truth. They are getting better in the advertising and some provide a disclaimer that the QVL is only a sampling of the DRAM that can run on the motherboard as they can't test the entire available DRAM. 3. They also are getting better in that some are starting to advertise (to a degree) how they test the DRAM and this may surprise you - Say you want to build a superfast rig, so you buy the ACME XXX motherboard that runs up to 2400 sticks and can handle 32 GB....and you buy a set that's on their QVL......did you realize it was probably ‘TESTED' at the mobos default boot freq/speed which typically is 1333 or 1600 and not at the set's rated freq/speed, so while Yes, it will run on the motherboard, it might not run at the freq you wanted and paid for. Some are finally putting it on their list that they test using the mobo's default boot speed. You also might take note that the motherboard manufacturers do what ‘testing' they do, with whatever DRAM is on hand. A number of the QVLs include sets of DRAM that aren't even made anymore and aren't available....but they had them, stuck them in and the system booted under defaults, so they went onto their QVL. You might also see a 4 DIMM list listed but they only tested with 2 of the DIMMS or they might list a 2 DIMM set, yet say that it works with 4 DIMMs which if it is true goes against DRAM manufacturer's recommendations to not mix sets of DRAM even when they are the same model. So. It's up to you to do a little research, both on the motherboard and CPU to find the capabilities of each before you decide on a set of DRAM and not solely trust reviews at reseller sites. Once you get familiar with DRAM and capabilities of various CPUs and chipsets, you can often get a few laughs from reading these reviews. I'd suggest looking for reviews from actual sites, like Benchmark Reviews that test the items in question or checking with the DRAM manufacturer (who will actually test the DRAM at the specified freq with the mobo) before purchasing. This article is part of our Opinion & Editorials section at Benchmark Reviews. Your feedback is always welcome!
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Comments
The manuals provided with motherboards do warn that the BIOS may not be compatible, but trying is the best way to find out, IMO.
Unfortunately, we also share one pet peeve. If the thing is supposed to work at xxxx speed, I should not need to do ANYTHING beyond plugging it in to get it to run at that speed. I really resent the time wasted on getting some gear to work at the speed it should do automatically. I blame intel / AMD squarely for this as they make the offending CPU / chipset combinations.
I hate the term mission critical, however it applied when one recent system needed to run some 2400Mhz RAM flat out to get the required throughput on some substantial ERPS reports. Half a day later I had beaten it into submission and satisfied the client. Of course, I effectively donated my labour...
Your comments about voltage & timings... I agree fully. Why are manufacturers allowed to get away with such claims? The other elephant in the throughput room is latency, which has been getting worse for years. Adding another 30 or so caches inside everything is OK for corporate reports, however it is at the expense of my shoot 'em up gamer friends. When the new machine that renders at blinding speed is as responsive as a brick when doing real time video editing it is also fun to watch (at a safe distance from the user).
After (far too many) years in the industry I can honestly say that too many of the basics have not improved significantly in the last 20 years, and a lot of them have gone backwards.
I too would love to see true plug and play with DRAM at any frequency, but it's not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future. The primary reason goes right back to what they advertise i.e. a typical Z77 motherboard that claims it can run up to 32GB of DRAM and up to 2800. Many of these motherboards have now been on the market for 6 months or so and still aren't ready to run 32GB of 2400, let alone 2800 under XMP, and there are many more that don't have a current BIOS available to allow you run a set like that.
To ever get true plug and play with DRAM, between the R&D and the BIOS programming that would be required PRIOR to release, I would guestimate it would raise prices a bare minimum of 10-15%...and they simply won't do it. Not even so much because of the time it would take, but they all know that another manufacturer will skimp and send his models out early knowing they can't run 32 of 2800, but wanting to grab the early sales, and continue to work on the BIOS as they rack up sales and others maybe waiting to release a good product.
It just rolls back to how it is today, they throw this adverting on the box, then when you say, this motherboard is suppose to run 32GB of 2400 or whatever, they tell you it's a DRAM problem and contact the DRAM manufacturer (and that's often even with DRAM on their QVL (because they tested the 2400 DIMMs at 1333/1600....not at 2400.
Having a Power Supply that is of a high quality is also a good idea to get the stability you want. (I use the SeaSonic brand)
Most systems need a few adjustments to operate at optimum speeds, but it's certainly worth it to do.
It's a problem that has existed for a very long long time take my AM2+ Asus M3A32MVP Deluxe it states it can handle 4 x 2GB Dimms at upto DDR2-1066 yeah ok that's fine BUT what it doesn't tell you is
a: You have to increase the IMC/NB voltage to 1.4V or it wont be stable
b: You'll have to manually set the timings otherwise it's starts up at DDR2-800 speeds with standard JEDEC timings from the SPD
and to top it off the qvl for this mobo doesn't even have and 4x 2GB sets tested in the list but does include 4x 256MB DDR2 sets (err WTF)