| How to Cheat eBay Sellers and Scam PayPal |
| Articles - Opinion & Editorials | ||
| Written by Olin Coles | ||
| Tuesday, 03 April 2012 | ||
How to Cheat eBay Sellers and Scam PayPalWhen eBay Buyer Protection is abused, PayPal punishes good sellers with bad policy.Most people are familiar with eBay, the web community with an endless catalog of items ready and available for purchase from across the globe. Like many who browse the auctions, I've needed to purchase a hard-to-find or out-of-production item and found it listed by hoarding collectors and International sellers. I also occasionally use eBay for selling random unwanted items to help fund the upgrade or repair of another product. After nearly three-hundred transactions spanned over ten years my overall experience has remained positive, but very recently my opinion of eBay and its online banking service PayPal have significantly changed. Packed away in boxes and long forgotten, I had been sitting on hundreds of old video games, software programs, and operating system discs that had been updated or upgraded through the years. One box led to another, and I eventually discovered dozens of brand new vintage radio control car parts purchased almost twenty years. As a result of this difficult economy and my buried treasures, I visited eBay in hopes of turning old merchandise into cash for new projects. So after spending hours observing how supply and demand dictate the final auction price, and how inventory trends effect the outcome, I was able to begin selling these miscellaneous items on eBay for a small profit. Selling on eBay has opened my eyes and I've learned a lot in such a short time. For example, never sell it all at once. If an old or rare item is auctioned only a few times per year and then several are suddenly listed all at once, a formerly limited supply has just been flooded with inventory that reduces product demand along with sale price. I've also learned to let bidders and buyers fight it out by offering very low auction starting bids, because if there's enough demand the price will quickly exceed the expected purchase price. Unfortunately, I've also learned that not everyone on eBay is honest and forthright, and many policies are abused in their favor. It may not surprise you to know the world is filled with bad people, and eBay openly welcomes them. As the world's premier e-commerce portal, people flock to eBay to prey and profit on the unwitting. Some bad buyers or competing sellers may bid on and win your auctions, without ever making payment, thereby eliminating available inventory for several weeks until claims are opened and closed. But as a result of being a publicly traded company with an ongoing drive for increased revenue, eBay strives to keep activity levels high so shareholding investors are impressed. As a result they seldom punish members in violation of policy. Unfortunately, I had to learn this the hard way. Very recently I began selling off some of those old items, which have been out of production or unavailable for many years and considered rare. The bidding was fun to watch, and it was always a pleasant surprise to see an item go from collecting dust to collecting payment. I would package my items in padded poly mailers (purchased from eBay sellers), and place the adhesive shipping label directly over the sealed flap. I knew the item was sealed and protected, expecting that in the worst case USPS might lose my package in the mail (which happens way too often), but then postal insurance would help cover it. Well, I was wrong. The worst that can happen is that the package actually reaches the buyer, nullifying any possible insurance claim, and then the buyer makes a complaint to eBay or PayPal. While eBay does try to make a small effort to weed out repeat offenders, their financial clearinghouse sister-company named PayPal does not. So when I packaged an item on Saturday morning and drove it off to the Post Office in hopes of impressing a buyer having only three previous eBay transactions with an especially prompt delivery, I was unprepared for a notification of a newly opened case that alerted me two days later. The brief details indicated an unopened yet somehow empty package was received. Apparently a printed shipping label with the package weight and tracking number aren't enough to defend my position, so I responded to the claim that a full refund would be given upon return of the claimed 'empty envelope', and then patiently waited. Weeks later the buyer wrote to me using the email address PayPal reveals to them (and thus bypassing the eBay message system), telling me the item was found loose in a bin and delivered. I was relieved, and messaged the buyer to kindly close the claim. As a precaution, I submitted a screen shot of the buyers email into the still-open PayPal claim, expecting it to become moot once the buyer logged in and pressed a button to close the case. This didn't happen, and instead a few days later PayPal charged my account for eBay's listing, shipping, and selling fees along with their own payment brokerage fee, and then refunded the buyer his entire paid purchase cost. I was stunned by how closely this resembled a legal form of robbery. I have since learned that PayPal has a policy to automatically side with buyer whenever an 'empty envelope' claim is made, even when USPS delivers the parcel without a damage/open package notice, and even if there's evidence attached to the claim that clearly reveals that a buyer has received the item. The only way to win a claim and keep your payment, is for the buyer to close the case. So I called PayPal and spoke to a case specialist and two supervisors, but none of them showed any interest in the details of my case. They made the bottom line very clear and simple: unless the buyer manually reports the item as received and then closes the claim, the buyer gets their money back and can keep the claimed 'empty package' along with the item sold to them. Just imagine the impact this policy has on legitimate sellers who are scammed out of their goods by over-protected buyers. While discussing this policy with PayPal, I proposed a hypothetical situation where a dishonest buyer purchases a very expensive item such as jewelry from an honest seller, who then abuses their buyer protection policy to claim the package arrived empty. I was told by the PayPal supervisor "it is our policy to side with the buyer in empty envelope cases". It's sad to imagine a tiny one-person business laboring to produce and sell product for the smallest profit margin, only to have eBay and PayPal slap them with a payment reversal in addition to seller fees and expenses associated with cost of goods and shipment. I am hoping for more awareness with the publication of this story, so that PayPal might revise their policy to look at evidence provided by the seller and shipping agent rather than disregard them in favor of automatically siding with the buyer.
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Comments
I would imagine about the only thing going through your fogy mind right about now is ?When will the insanity stop?? Yea oh yea! Just another example of why we should remove all the warning labels from products and let problems like this sort themselves out.?
It was an honest mistake, thinking that the wrong item had been sent.
..Or, what you should do is, never let your wiffy do any shipping of your items out, and keep a list of what has been shipped to, and where.
^_^
These are the sellers who will do whatever it takes to not get a negative feedback. Including refunding the total cost without even asking for a return. Usually they'll send out a free 'replacement' item if you say yours came 'not as described'.
Wear your 'top rated seller' badge with honor sellers! Let them know what great service you provide.
Anyone else have a similar experience?? The first thing that came to my mind is close my PayPal account ASAP due to security breaches!!
The rules are all written, they are there for everyone to read but only a few successful people actually do it. You need to not only read all of them and the contract when you sign up but also to understand them and keep up with them.
Of Course going into the Hospital is no excuse! if it were every butt hook scammer would just say that. NO excuse for some things is correct. PLUS! you could have called the eBay support and they would have helped you immediately if your story were true. It's insane that you would think your customers would just eat the loss and eBay would overlook the incident when everything points to theft.
You thought you owned your business. You did. and do. you were just irresponsible with it and that is how they fail. i realize these are things that you do not want to hear but they are things you need to hear before you get going again.
want to get going again? Read the rules. You will need an entire new personality as well without being deceptive. get educated about the whole thing and do not follow instructions from sellers that are less successful than you want to be.
the rules are pretty plain but there is some room for interpretations in just a few places, when you come to these places and you feel confused, DO NOT ASSUME, Call eBay.
After you are done you have to do the exact same thing with pay pal. Pay Pal is an eBay company - it has a set of rules and they must be known.
I have 100 positive feedback in 306 transactions over 10 years time. A first-time ebay user who opened their account just 3 weeks ago filed a complaint to ebay that they never received a $92.00 item. IMMEDIATELY, PayPal took the funds out of my account. My auction states economy shipping, no tracking # supplied. Still waiting for this matter to be resolved, but after reading your anecdote above, I guess I'm out the 90 bux. Luckily, there was only $33 in paypal, and they're saying I owe them $60-something. They will never see it, they can fkn suck one. Ebay is obviously going to lose a lot more money on my future fees, because if they're gonna side with a first-time ebay user with a feedback score of 1 (the feedback from this transaction), over a 10+ year loyal user with 100% feedback, they are obviously not very smart. I will file complaints about ebay and paypal on every message board I could find if this matter is not resolved properly.
"eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #5" ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
Actually, I never had so many problems with people commuting fraud in my 4 years or so of having had used both these services to buy and sell.
Funny how people can communicate so well before they receive the product and the moment they receive it, a Paypal dispute arises in my inbox.. Woohoo!! US$650 out of pocket because 3 or 4 greedy fraud committing criminals can't work as hard as I've done. I hate eBay and I hate Paypal. Why does it take Paypal 2 weeks+ to think of a solution to my problem? I am still waiting.
My blog explains more
#johansgeekspot.blogspot.com/2013/09/here-i-will-describe-joy-and-pain-of.html
BEWARE OF THE BUYER SCAM I JUST POINTED OUT!!!! THE BUYER COULD NOT SAY TO PAY PAL HE DIDN'T GET THE COIN, BECAUSE I HAD A TRACKING NUMBER WHEN I SENT IT!!!! SO THEY MADE UP THE STORY ABOUT THE EDGE OF THE COIN TO GET THE MONEY BACK AND KEEP THE COIN!!!! BE SURE IF YOU SELL COINS ON EBAY TO MAKE PHOTOS OF THE EDGE OF THE COIN TOO & SEND WITH TRACKING!!!!! MAY ALL EBAY SCAMMERS BURN IN HELL!!!!! (PAY PAL WILL NEVER SEE THE MONEY THAT'S IN RED ON MY OLD ACCOUNT, I WENT TO SELL ON SITES WHERE I CAN TAKE CHECKS AND MONEY ORDERS AND NO END FEES!!!! EBAY AND THEIR SUB. PAY PAL CAN GO TO HELL TOO!!!!)
you will not say so....
I am top rated seller with over 30000 feedback since 1999.
A buyer with 4 feedback bought my item, after received,
he just claim "not as described"
money being HELD and ebay asking he ship it back to me, guess what??
He shipped a box of junk back to me instead and he get his money back.
I report this issue to ebay but they cannot do anything as tracking show item returned...
so ebay believe a buyer with 4 feedback said item not as described.
but NOT believe a seller over 30000 feedback who received JUNK...
I do know package lost or stolen is a extra cost on top of a business.
but you know.. it do make me mad when those scammer can steal money from seller officially....
by the way, I sell photo equipment, guess how many item I have to sell to cover that 1 fraud... well.... I am leaving ebay soon.. :(
The bottom line: you sell on eBay, you lose with eBay.
Make all the deals u want the way u want. meet the client at whatever parking lot. And commence with a knife fight to resolve any disputes.
PROTECT YOURSELF RULES
1) Never leave any money in your Paypal account. As soon as you get paid, transfer it out into your linked bank account. They can't take it out of that.
2) You can indeed specify other forms of payment excluding paypal. Sometimes I ask for a check and time to clear. Get buyer's approval to protect yourself from ebay.
3) I've noticed more & more sellers restricting to USA only, for very good reason. I'm going that way myself.
4) The scammers seem to favor certain types of products. I stay out of them.
That said we still got scammed by a buyer in New York on a very expensive item we sold. He claimed the item smelled like cigarette smoke and was offensive to him and wanted his money back even though we specifically stated we would not take returns. No one in our house smokes and we used all new packaging.
Ebay only backs the buyer so even though we stated we would not accept returns, eBay policy states we have to. Then we asked about all the fees we had to pay on the money and eBay said they would refund those to us but we would have to reach out to Paypal to determine if we could recoup those fees.
I think it is high time someone came up with an alternative to eBay. I won't use them anymore.
Well, everything did go fine for selling my ipod touch 4th generation 32GB for $100 to a nice guy down in the States, but the only thing that did go wrong was the 15% of ebay fees that I wasn't expecting to get. Most of that was just the 'final value fee.' I mean, I was already losing money on it..I didn't need ebay to take such another huge chunk of money away from me..I vowed not to sell again on ebay because of the highway robbery ebay fees, but the market is just so huge and vast compared to small craigslist or kijiji, that it is tempting to sell something on there because of that market.
Sign up and join the figh
I mean, I hope Canada is a fairly safe place to ship to..? I live in BC, near Washington, and I feel it's fairly safe anyways..I'm not sure why some sellers say that they won't ship to Canada..
But. I guess it just depends on the buyer who is wanting to buy your listing, a bad buyer could be from any country, even the USA.
And how would the post office know about it/resolve it..?
Right now, I've been waiting for two packages sent from the USA since September 30th, and October 1st..that's 16 days that I've been waiting, and it usually never takes that long..so I wonder what happened to my packages..? I've bought many countless things before, and they usually take only 4 - 7 days to ship from the USA. The only packages that ever took this long were from China. So it's odd, and I wonder if it's just the postal service being slow or something right now. :S
And, the ugly reality for consumers dealing with the eBafia/PreyPal complex ...
?Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5? ...
#bit.ly/N1nTlc
Even if you have resolved the complaint, or think it hopeless, if the CPFB gets swamped with complaints about Ebay and Paypal, they will take action.
"If your PayPal balance does not cover the refund:
If you have a confirmed U.S. bank account, we'll withdraw the amount of the refund from your bank account.
If you don't have a confirmed U.S. bank account, you won't be able to issue the refund until you add money to your PayPal balance."
So be aware that any bank accounts remaining linked to your Paypal are liable to be withdrawn from in the event that Paypal sides with the scamming buyer.
And the ugly reality of the clunky PayPal, et al ...
#bit.ly/NFqjmp
#forums.auctionbytes.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24611
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
They opened the mailing package and claimed it wasn't what they purchased and paypal automatically sided with them but wouldn't give a refund until they shipped it back in the same condition as they received it. The buyer ended up closing the claim, I'm assuming because they had broken the seal of the unopened item.
I'm glad they didn't report receiving an empty box, and I'm also glad after reading this story that I stopped using ebay when my trouble with paypal began.
Although not using ebay and paypal again is a good choice too. ^_^
No more ebay or paypal for me but I'll gladly tell people how to get free things since that's how things are done in the world of ebay and paypal. My hope is to cost them many many times more than they stole from me.
i really
need to buy this for my cousin schooling outside the country as a
gift. I have been trying to buy this on eBay but its so very
stressful buying i will offer you $450 including the shipping cost, i
will be paying through PayPal because i have a verified account with
PayPal. get back with you PayPal email address and the full name on it
so i can make payment into your PayPal account.once payment clears.get
back to me if my approval is granted.i would like to see the picture
and also the condition which the item is please. Kindly accept my offer and get back to me with your paypal email ID,full name so i can make the payment.
Await your response soon
It's good to know.
The way it works, the buyer pays through Paypal and waits until you have given him/her a
good evaluation report.
Shortly after the sellers good payment report is logged on Ebay, the buyer complains by Ebay email that the item is not as specified in the sellers details.
The buyer then says that he/she will accept the item at a reduced price, or if the seller does not agree to this the buyer will ask for a full refund.
This puts the buyer in a difficult position knowing that the Paypal buyers protection will automatically apply if the buyer asks for full refund under the guise of item not as described. The seller then has two choices, try and fight the argument out though Ebay (who will always decide in the buyers favour, or give in to the buyers discount request.
In the end the seller will lose out by either giving the discount to the buyer or having the problem of getting the goods back and possibly in abused condition.
The buyer uses this technique to get the item at the price he intended to pay. The result is that other honest bidders are cheated and the seller has a lot of hassle.
The sellers paypal account is frozen and shows a debit of the transaction price whilst the argument is settled.se
Ebay make no attempt to verify the buyers complaints, and will not look at high res. pictures of the item to establish the sellers claim.
Further to this, the buyer gives the seller a bad transaction report, the seller has his sellers worthyiness percentage reduced, and cannot make comments on the buyers transaction evaluation (that is why the buyer waits for the seller to acknowledge the payment and give a good evaluation report first.).
This all amounts to a real painful transaction for the seller and is certainly a reason not to sell again on Ebay.
This all refers to honest sellers of course, in my case the item in question was brand new and only unboxed, it was described as in "used and in new condition". The buyer complained the item was not new, it was scratched and dirty, all untrue.
Point! Do no give your evaluation of the buyers payment until the last moment when the transaction is close (30 days).
Which is great for me, however even if he decides to send me back the faulty card, I will still get a refund!!!
So I could rip him off, however unlike many who do, I will not having refused receipt of the graphics card this very morning, it will now take him a month to get it back...
Did he deserve this, yes the company did, because the customer service was terrible, rather then just send a new one straight away, which he should have, he decided to test the card for a week, then saying it was not faulty!!! Well when a card has graphic errors on screen, you can safely say its a faulty card...
I have now purchased a card from Amazon, which will be here in the next few days...
Will I use Ebay again, I have had some really great success with them, however, recently I have really be stung, in a good way PayPal has always paid me back in the end, which is great, however, if you think that I could have got my whole computer for nothing, if I wanted to scam... Makes you think the system really does need changing...
If the company had given me better customer service, I would have put up with all the issues...
To be honest, I will only sell on EBAY now, and then I dont offer refunds... I also take photos of all the goods being sent off, going into the parcel and all are sent recorded delivery...
One more tip dont buy anything from Egypt...
I know because as a consultant to 5 Big PowerSellers who are not big enough to have any clout with ebay/paypal when dealing with SCAMMY buyers, no matter what you do as a seller even with proof of your claim falling to your favor the SCAM BUYER WINS EVERYTIME
Also to many returns or open cases (3) to be exact, or 3 natural/neg feedbacks puts the fee's at 22% to 33% and your search ranking gets polled to zero meaning KNOW ONE WILL FIND YOUR ITEMS.
Go LOCAL craigslist, backpack or go EBID.NET with them they will import all your positive ebay feedback kill all the neg. and you can ACCEPT any payment you want including charging whatever for shipping. They do no let automatic neg. post it takes weeks of review and they still may not allow the neg. feedback. $55 makes you a lifetime member with no fees.
My clients are doing well there and we keep all the ebay crappy sales to 20 items per month where as before we where posted 900 items per month.
Hope this HELPS - Screw ebay now they hold you money for 21 DAYS! while you ship and pays fee's before ever getting paid.
If you purchase items on Ebay, watch for fake/counterfeits. Ebay does little to nothing to stop them (especially DVDs - movies/games/etc).
Another case to Russia. Buyer initiated a claim that they never received $225 item before the expected delivery date. Tried to drag that one out but PayPal gave full refund faster than you could shake a stick at. USPS International number given from post office is not a tracking number anymore. Can't insure unless sent expedited mail. [USPS recommends get Return Receipt from mail recipient].
Lessons learned. Never sell and ship items to places where it can't be tracked or insured. Block Brazil and Russia due to cases like these (if you're brave enough, do a Google search for eBay fraud Brazil or Russia.) PayPal requires a signature from recipient at delivery in order to back Seller (like they're really going to sign their real name)
I'm sure there are plenty of good folks out there buying. But it really sucks when there's others out there that prey, take advantage of the liberal eBay/PayPal system then get to walk away unobstructed by what appears to be policies that entice bad behavior, pretty much encouraging it. What do they have to lose?
Last but not least - then there are the stupid buyers that think your square peg should fit in their round hole, then claiming it's not what they wanted. Apparently, pictures and concise descriptions are not enough to thwart the idiocy. Help fight this problem. Just say no to eBay and PayPal. Wish there was a real alternative out there...
However they should look more at the tracking details to see, for instance in my case, I refused the package... I could have taken it and had my money back, instead I refused it, as its a faulty item... So its on its way back to them, and I will have my money back...
I have also been stung, brought a solid state hard drive, location in Ireland, however seller was registered in Egypt!!!!
If I knew that I would never have given them my money, as the hard drive never turned up, however EBAY should have seen this was a fake, due to new seller...
They should have a policy in place that new sellers under the rating of 5 can only buy, and not sell expensive gear, until they have a higher rep, protecting people like us...
However this faulty graphics card issue I have, is in the UK. They thought if they sent it back to me as it is, I would not get a refund... PAYPAL have already confirmed a refund will be granted when the date is due...
So sellers dont have a leg to stand on at all, however if more sellers were honest, it would not have to be like this... I should have had a refund when I asked for one, when THEY had the card, last thursday, instead the company wanted to play games with me, that made me want my money back even more...
So much so that I phoned PAYPAL...
And the eseller....well he's not around any longer. I guess he was finally caught up and dealt with!
Because digital distributors are handling payment and other activities such as downloads and accounts, you?d think any empty-box product issues the distributor has shouldn?t affect the seller, but that?s not what happened. A claim was made on PayPal for a missing product, and the customer was refunded with money straight out of my account.
What?s really problematic here is that I was the one responding to the customers? claim e-mail with suggestions such as logging into his or her account on the distributor?s website or checking his or her spam box. Well the customer never responded.
Thankfully, I had the customer?s e-mail address from the distributor and e-mailed directly with a one-time download link. In this case, the customer was finally able to both download and run the game.
The second problem was PayPal. Now that I finally got the customer his or her product, I had to go about proving this to PayPal. I can?t remember if I called or e-mailed them; probably both, but I did denote in the case log this problem was resolved and the customer had his product.
For proof, I explained the customer never responded in the PayPal case even though I was offering solutions, revealed the customer had a valid user account with this distributor and that the customer was refusing to login and download the game so there was nothing I could do about that, and sent an e-mail log showing the problem was resolved.
Ebay and Paypal are in it to make money which ever way they can so don't think for a second that you are protected it there is a buck to be earned for them. There are hundreds of websites, like paypalsucks, screw-paypal etc, to warn and enlighten you about the scams out there but often people visiting them do so after they been duped.
People said they can use propay, paypay, and what so ever pay-ed, but how many sellers also have that alternative pay? Not all alternatives payable method can be use worldwide, maybe only for a certain countries like us, canada, europe etc.. what about for brazil,argentina, australia, and other countries? definitely your business cannot going fully WORLDWIDE.
One more thing, ebay is currently allowing seller to only sell 5 item or item worth below 250 dollar per mont. This action is totally chasing out the true seller who want to make business on ebay! Guess who left after this policy implemented? SCAMMERS! They dont care if they can get only 250 dollars , they still got money without sending the REAL item. But what about for the genuine seller? what will you sell if you're allowed to sell only 5 item per month? Dont ebay thinks this is ridiculous policy? Sellers will assume EBAY are not relevant anymore to make business, even for a tiny deal.
Ebay and paypal should change their policy if they are really protect their consumer especially for the seller. Because the seller who will put their things on ebay and they are the one who pay fees, not buyer.
the paypal system is egregiously usurious, the fvf on the shipping is just outrageous, the fees are too high, and there really are too many people trying to scam. As a seller not only do you pay a FVF on the auction total, you pay to receive money via paypal, then you pay fvf on the shipping money that you receive. its not even worth selling small items.
I sell mostly used tech stuff, like video cards, etc, and dumb buyers think i will provide them with tech support (as if i make the item?), or ask stupid questions pre and post sale.
Then there are the international bidders you can not block because they use a mail forwarding service to ship the package outside of the US.
Really, you can not win. Just recycle your stuff.
Does anyone else know of better alternatives to ebay?
Most Important: learn from this.
#4x4offroadclub.21.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=1737#1737
Like you I am really going to be choosy from now on, who I buy from...
NOT TRUE. If the the price is 'too good to be true' - check again. Sellers history: Lots of fake sales, addresses, feedbacks. I reported it to eBay.
And I always state and recored my case to the seller before ever making a claim.
And when my original pleas are met with snide derision I always remain polite in all correspondance. Please review this case which I have outlined in great detail.. blah blah blah.. I am sure is simply a misunderstanding.. blah blah blah.. And even if I need to continue the process with the additional advantage of paypal as a neutral 3rd party I hope as much will resolve this misunderstanding blah blah blah.
I do not understand why sellers find the need to correspond in aggressive tones when I remain polite. I assume many people feel their job r beneath them. ( in retail as well ) where in a Bad Economy, people still have not discovered humility. But as long as they respond with ridicule against the suggestion of my possible winning a paypal claim.. I will always champion paypal for empowering me to safely make a purchase knowing there is a 0% chance of being ripped off!
I love when the final response is...
" well I do not have to resend your product because of your paypal claim... I am just going to do it anyway "
I do not wish ill of any person making a living. But the greater of two evils?
What is more important to you? selling or buying on the Internet?
I never ever make a purchase without paypal.
Not paypal or Ebay...
But then again. Ebay became a losing game a looooong time ago.
Get this, the guy at paypal said... "well you sent it back, if the seller wanted to send it back to you thats upto him, however as you did send it back, you can have a refund...!"
I could have kept the card aswell, however as I am not a thief I refused to sign for it...
However some bad sellers do deserve what they get... They could have refunded me weeks ago...
International Shipping Scam tolerated by EBAY BUYER PROTECTION
Here is how the Scam works
Seller place item on EBAY
International Buyer wins item and pays for item plus S&H
You print international postage and custom forms from EBAY and get a tracking number starting with two letters and followed by numbers
You Ship item thru USPS
LOOK AND BEWARE
USPS accepts item
Item makes it all the way to Jamaica NY, 11430 USPS Origin Sort Facility
NOW USPS Tracking number stops here
Tracking numbers that starts with letters do not require scanning or tracking by destination Country Postal Service
Item is now en route to destination
HERE IS THE SCAM
Buyer waits a couple of weeks
Buyer place a claim to EBAY RESOLUTION CENTER stating he did not receive item
even if they did receive the item in question
EBAY Resolution Center contact Seller to provide USPS Tracking Number
Tracking Number shows final destination as Jamaica, NJ USPS Origin Sort Facility
EBAY Resolution Center will never receive a tracking confirmation from destination and will never receive proof of delivery even if item has arrived to destination.
Case is closed in FAVOR of Buyer because tracking number can not be accounted for after Jamaica, NJ , USPS Origin Sort Facility
Buyer gets back FULL amount they paid plus S&H
Buyer Gets Items for FREE and All Money Back
Seller is out of Item and Money
EBAY Resolution Center answer to this is that Seller should have had the item insured and registered
EBAY Resolution Center do not control any part of the shipping process that is ? conveniently? located on it's website.
Tracking number is absolutely USELESS
EBAY BUYER PROTECTION will close claim on BUYERS FAVOR knowing this SCAM is HAPPENING
USPS do not have any mechanism in place for you to file a CLAIM for stuff sold internationally
Seller is SCREWED
Creatureunlimited Lost $39.45
DO NOT BE THE NEXT VICTEM
Here is the information for this jerk... if anyone is in Russia and can help me.. please contact me.
Shipping Address: Buyers ID on ebay..krot-georg
Georg Panassenko
Dzerjinskogo st.201 - 29
Novorossiysk
353920
Russia
other side I want to see how much free staff I can get from
unsuspecting sellers
?Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5?
##ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167554
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
Suffice to say when the delivery rate drops to less than 75% (as currently it stands)i will just abandon ebay - Full stop!
?Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #5?
##ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167554
Should be well worth keeping track of, this demonstration of the utter corruption and deviousness of eBay and its auction system ...
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
Talk to your bank. Alert them. Deny Paypal request. Most banks will take good care of their account holders
Its #. dont use it any more. they are fraud.. ebay and paypal is a big fraud.
cheaters.
A lot of sellers say that it is a bad idea to block international bidders. They claim that you can sell items for double or triple what you would get just selling to the United States, which more than makes up for any losses incurred by scams. Just food for thought.
By the way, if you close a PayPal account that has a credit balance -- money PayPal owes you -- they won't send it to you if it's a relatively small amount. Instead (they say) they'll donate YOUR money to an "internationally recognized charity".
Dzerjinskogo st.201 - 29
Novorossiysk
353920
Russia
Buyer's ID:
krot-georg
Buyer's Email:
krot_krotovich@yahoo .com
Please get back to me on this!
I've been selling online before ebay came and I'll be seeing online after ebay goes!
I have, over the years, been both impressed and discouraged in the way that ebay has developed...the number of shoppers it attracts is nothing short of incredible! While the lengths to which ebay will go to make itself rich on the backs of those of us that bring this horde of buyers the products that attract them here in the first place...make me sick!
At some point (exaggerated for effect LOL!) ebay will wake up and find itself with a store full of buyers, with nothing to sell them!
Unfortunately, at the moment, there is no valid alternative to ebay, but there will be, and when there is, there will be no more ebay!
My family and I run this business, to fill the financial void created by my "re-classing" income reductions and my wife's "downsizing" loss of employment...we work all month, place and receive 1 - 3 deliveries, list hundreds of items, make hundreds of sales, package and ship hundreds of products, bust our asses to comply with ebays ludicrous "Top Seller" requirements...all so we can hope that some buyer (that has no idea that ebay charges us an 11% final value fee on the actual shipping costs we charge our customers!) doesn't rate us with a less than 3 stars on any category (shipping costs in particular) so that we can get a 20% final value fee credit making up the lions share of our less than 3% profit margin with ebay runs off 20 cents per listing, $20 per month for the store, 11% of the total take, ancillary fees plus for features plus what they make on the PayPal side (2.9% + 30 cents per transaction!).
I would gladly give them what I make on the sales in exchange for 1/2 of what they make off of us!
It's just crazy!
Are you a ebuyer and want to know more?
Or someone with a suggestion of where else to do business?
Or someone that is looking to form a group to build a better "ebay"?
PLEASE reply to this post...let's talk!
Tony
I stopped using paypal and ebay for over a year now. Used VISA for about $6000 of payments. Buyer sold new mobile phone with several faults, I thought it was fake, but realised it was probably a previously returned item. Paypal make automatic decisions without regard to fairness. The seller was a big seller in China and they didn't want to upset him I think.
For Buyers: There are really items that are not shipped to buyers, and if the buyer paid the item using a credit card (you are not covered by Buyer Protection), don't expect to get a refund from eBay, at all. /they will just inform you to contact your buyer or report to the Authorities.
These comments I read are just a few cases I handled and read during my employment in eBay, and I really hate it every time I think I worked there. eBay claims the tag line "safe market place to buy and sell", but who believes that? They don't know how to protect small entrepreneurs and shoppers who would want to have a great transactions in buying and selling experience online.
Just go to your credit card company and do a "CHARGEBACK"
Read paypal"CHARGEBACK" terms :)
Paypal cannot control the "CHARGEBACK" by the credit card company...
Hahaha
Wether using a Chargeback for honest use would work is doubtful, as Ebay/Paypal are legally registered as a Bank, banks help each other and the bank being asked to make a Chargeback will probably introduce a significant delay in the transaction so as to give Paypal time to take the cash.
PreyPal is NOT registered as a bank; it is a faux bank; in fact it is licensed usually only as a "money transmitter" (like Western Union); and it operates the majority of its business as a "merchant of sorts" via a credit card merchant account with Wells Fargo Bank ... PreyPal is simply another "merchant" as far as the real banks are concerned and any credit card charge back will be professionally mediated by Visa/MasterCard, not by PreyPal ...
And, the reality of the clunky PayPal, et al ...
##ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167715
If you can explain that I would be interested to understand the new situation, kind regards.
And, the reality of the clunky PayPal, et al ...
##ecommercebytes.com/forums/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=167715
##telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2808982/PayPal-becomes-a-bank-to-fight-off-Google.html
In Europe Paypal is registered as a bank
I have enjoyed reading all the blogs above, I have been a full time seller with eBay for 10 plus years and very RARELY buy on eBay. About 2 years ago I began teaching eBay as an education spe#t and also am a registered ebay drop off location. I am telling you all this so you know how DEEPLY entrenched I am in ebay as a seller. I have sold well over 15,000 items.
Here's the NEW DEAL
International: Establish a risk factor that you are willing to part with for First Class International Mail. Otherwise, use EXPRESS MAIL INSURED with signature confirmation. MAKE THE BUYER pay for all of this by adding extra weight to your listings.
NEXT: do not sell to RUSSIA, and I limit Brazil, UK, and a few other countries that I have had too many items not received cases.
IN YOUR LISTINGS: use the WORDS AS IS, show all damage in pictures and in words. I never use the WORD PERFECT.
I never put any measurements on clothing, this RESOLVES the Item not as described claims. Tell them to go to the manufacturers site for that.
GET SIGNATURES on anything that you do not want to part with financially, make the buyer pay for that too.
I too have left eBay several times, have been treated like a crook by paypal, and had ENDLESS feedback that I am out to CHEAT some harmless person for there $20, even though I have endless feedback as a great seller. i know how disarming it can be to lose a case, and I am a mother of 6 and support my entire family in whole......but it STILL BEATS WORKING FOR any other company in the world......I give eBay that credit.
Good luck to all of you..........and watch out for a Brick in the Box return:)
I have always stuck with ebay no matter what adverse treatment to the sellers, but for me the straw that broke the camels back was when I realized ebay was charging me 9% on shipping fees.
I had a dresser I sold for 75.00, and the shipping to get it across the country UPS Freight was 290.00. The shipping fee was the exact cost, I wasn't making a profit on shipping.
For years I had been selling small items and offering free shipping, so I didn't realize ebay was charging 9% on shipping, until I listed a large dresser, made the sale, and looked at my ebay invoice after the sale.
I was being charged 26.01 for the shipping charges, plus 6.75 on the actual sale. Ebay was making 32.76 on my sale. Almost half of my profit!
For me that was the final insult. I closed my ebay store which had several hundred small items that I handcraft myself. I refuse to pay ebay for a store. I now only list my 50 free items per month.
I have found a new auction site to list on. What I am wondering is now that I am no longer offering my handcrafted items on ebay, is it acceptable for me to contact all my previous buyers through the email addresses provided to me by Paypal giving them the link to my new store?
Another ebay seller who sells website templates contacted me in this way a few years ago. She still sells on ebay as well.
I still want to keep my ebay account and do not want to risk losing it, even though I have greatly decreased my ebay sells. The items I would be alerting my old buyers about are not available by me on ebay, so I am not sure they fall into the selling outside of ebay policy.
Thanks for sharing this useful information. Do you mind if you tell me the name of the other online store that you're selling on it?
J
So J, you either give them your stuff for free to satisfy them or be prepared for a charge back much much further down the road.
i sold and expensive itemfor £500 the buyer said it did not work . i told them to send it backbut they wanted a full refund before they would agree . they then opened a case and ebay told them to return it to me for a refund
the problem is once a case is opened ebay refund as soon as proof of delivery is shown and in this casew the item was very badly packed and smashed to pices
i tried to put in a clame with interlink only to be told by them that i am not there customer but they have sent claim formes to the buyer
i find it unbleavable that ebay can give the buyer his mony back and he does not have to clame on the insurence on my behalf or worse gets to keep that mony too
yes i have apealed the case against me was told to send picturs , got confirmation email only to have the apeal refused because i did not send picturs
Also to many returns or open cases (3) to be exact, or 3 natural/neg feedbacks puts the fee's at 22% to 33% and your search ranking gets polled to zero meaning KNOW ONE WILL FIND YOUR ITEMS.
Go LOCAL craigslist, backpack or go EBID.NET with them they will import all your positive ebay feedback kill all the neg. and you can ACCEPT any payment you want including charging whatever for shipping. They do no let automatic neg. post it takes weeks of review and they still may not allow the neg. feedback. $55 makes you a lifetime member with no fees.
My clients are doing well there and we keep all the ebay crappy sales to 20 items per month where as before we where posted 900 items per month.
Hope this HELPS - Screw ebay now they hold you money for 21 DAYS! while you ship and pays fee's before ever getting
craigslist.com - backpage.com - EBID.NET
Now I just sold an Apple laptop, and am now paranoid the same thing will happen. There is nothing I can do to protect myself if the buyer decides to claim he received an "empty box"... I'm tempted to cancel the transaction and just list it on Craigslist. I think I'll just stick with inexpensive items for eBay...
Too bad for ebay...if others are only listing lower-priced and lighter weight items as I am, they have really messed themselves up profit-wise. Wish there was another sight that was more seller-friendly, and didn't require Paypal for payment. I would DEFINITELY switch!
The whines about fees, charges, dispute decisions, scammers pretending to be PayPal or eBay... ALL OF THESE COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF ONLY WE READ THE AGREEMENTS FOR EVERY SERVICE WE USE.
want to be protected as seller/buyer? Read the qualifications for a transaction to be covered for such.. if any criteria is missing (example confirmed address for shipping) then sellers deny the payment!
surprised with the fees? READ THE FEES SECTION on the USER AGREEMENT to know how much the FIXED percentages. pre-calculate what you are expecting to receive (less fees) then add the estimated fees to that amount and make it your listing price.
you are all intelligent people. Ican say that from your posts..
HOWEVER, sometimes, when we know a lot already and understand even the most complicated things.. that is when we overlooked the simplest of the MUST-DOs.
Im not speaking in behalf of Paypal or ebay. I dont get paid for this (I WISH! HAHAHAHA!)
Im speaking from experience. I learned the hard way too.. harder than what you think.. BUT! i still trust these companies fully because i tried other services/companies yet i still went back to where i should be.. WHY SETTLE FOR LESS IF YOU COULD BE WITH THE BEST?
oh and one more thing.. if you call PayPal/eBay's customer service, BE NICE> the NICER you are, the BETTER SERVICE you'll get. ;)
GOODLUCK!!
I use EBID.NET for all my ebay type auction stuff FLAT $49 fee to be a lifetime member and * * * * ZERO FEE'S * * * * and you can accept ANY PAYMENT you want plus they will EXPORT all your POSITIVE ONLY ebay feedback so you don't look like a rookie - try it for 90 days for less than $10 - Been selling on there for 4 years and I don't use ebay at ALL.
Then I use craigslist and backpage.com for the other.
##ftccomplaintassist ant.gov/
I did have an insident when I was the seller. When I listed the item I blocked international buyers, buyers with unpaid strikes ( mind you they only go back 30 days on the unpaid item(s) strike) & less then 1 feedback! Well, a Jennifer**** won two of my items. She had NO FEEDBACK!?!? It said Jennifer**** 00.0% !! well, she never paid for items. Two separate actions. So, I didn't get paid & eBay didn't even do what they asked me in my questions! I didn't want anyone w/o any feed back!
Visa?s online digital wallet, ?V.me?, is now out of beta testing on buy.com and is generally available for online buyers in the US and Canada?and the rest of the world soon too, I hope. And MasterCard?s ?PayPass? digital wallet soon to follow.
I have no doubt that those online merchants in North America, that already have a merchant account with an FDIC-insured real bank, will now, very happily, start dumping the clunky PreyPal in favor of Visa?s professional offering.
PreyPal will no longer be able to power the bilge pumps that are keeping the leaking old scow eBay from finally slipping beneath the waves. Certainly, once Visa?s V.me is available worldwide, PreyPal will be dead in the water?except for its effectively mandated use on the ever-atrophying eBay Marketplace ?
So, let?s then see how well the eBafia Don and his clunky Marketplace/PreyPal complex fare in the next year or so ?
Regardless, online buyers now have access to a professional online digital wallet: Visa?s ?V.me? at:
##v.me/enrollment/consumers/new
And, the reality of the clunky PayPal, et al ...
#bit.ly/NFqjmp
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
I recently was lucky enough to sell a bunch of phone cases at a nice profit and made over 10k in a month. Someone at ebay/paypal didnt like it and asked for me to prove my identity and prove I owned the merchandise. I submitted everything they asked for and they still froze my paypal account with over $5000 left in it. I called in and luckily they removed the hold and I withdrew my money.
A few days later they shut down my auction saying I was selling counterfeit goods, even though I never said my items were original nor did they have any markings or logos to suggest I was selling an original item. Now some of my international buyers are claiming the item "never arrived" since ebay emails them telling the item was removed and they might have been ripped off.
My listing had over 13,000 views and 500+ followers. They want you to sell but not so much that you anger their larger accounts that they cut sweet deals to sell on their site.
Its hard to find a new selling avenues, but I've managed to find a few.
If myspace can become a second fiddle so will ebay, its just a matter of time.
Sure enough, the last 4 were all for phones and in 3 of them he had filed 'never received' claims. Mr wheelchair does no more than rustle up 4 large guys and drives 150 miles to the scammers house. The guy answers the door and near #s himself when confronted. He got his phone back PLUS money for 'inconvenience'.
One for the good guys. :0)
If you are in Australia then try Paymate.com.au theyre 'australian owned' useable on ebay etc as they are a third party escrow/holders of monies etc but dont charge the fee's that paypal do nor do they deliberately try to rip its customers off.
Other than that, do what I have done for years 'make my own choices' based on fact and not procrastinate with trying to fix a wheel that is very very broken :( like paypal or ebay..
sorry but lets get real about the facts here..move on people :) and best of luck to all. Oh and for goodness sake DONT sell to Nigeria or Russia unless they have long term excellent feedback and havnt changed their ebay name 58 differing times in the past..do your homework before buying or selling to anyone like I do then you 'dont have problems'..period!
cheers from once bitten once learnt!
Melbourne Australia the land of gorgeous women and down to earth people :))
She claimed that I had not delivered the item. No matter how hard I appealed, and presented the logical facts that the items was intangible and required the buyers participation, I was still found at fault.
.. and my account was de-registered as I did not have paypal funds they could draw on and I refused to refund the amount. Once your account is suspended you cant get into your paypal history and I had many other purchasers that were alarmed that I was no longer registered on eBay, and some other transactions mid stream that I couldnt access or complete. (Luckily I was able to contact them privately)
Months later, I re-listed my holiday house on my partners eBay account (co owner but registered at different residence) and they suspended him for affilitation with de-registered member. Months later again, I used my daughters account and she was also de-registered...!!!!! Needless to say, no - one else would let me touch their accounts!
After this I let out my house permanently to save the grief.
What upset me about this whole event was that there was no rational behind it and yet they wouldnt listen to common sense.
However, good thing you still have the address of the person, so hopefully they live close by. >:)
?Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5? ...
#bit.ly/N1nTlc
If anyone can explain why no regulatory aurthority appears interested in doing anything about this rampant wire fraud and its criminal facilitator, eBay, I would be interested in hearing such explanation ...
Meaning whatever you profit you want out of your item add the fees
Into it in addition too. Either way your going to pay fees
But at least your almost guaranteed to sell your item on eBay, as
Far as the Comment I received regarding me Shipping a IPhone to
Another Country you said I was asking for it?' I've been Selling for
12 Years internationally I've never had this problem. 80% of my profits
Come from other countries. I researched the buyer before selling to them
They checked out, I should have made them pay for Express Mail on
A item that cost that much, express mail was like $70 for this
Transaction vs $18 first class int, however if I can't Insure it I will not
Ship Electronics Internationally ever again. I'm an
Experienced Seller but even that didn't help me in this
Case. eBay sided with buyer in the end they always will, maybe one
Day we will have rights too. But for now it's all about the buyers
So be careful Sellers, you never know who's going to scam you.
I had never sold iPhone on eBay before didnt know it was
Easy target for scammers until I got scammed. Thing is eBay had
Flagged the buyers account before they. Bought my phone
eBay said for suspicious activity but they allowed him to buy buy
Anyway, after 12 years of working hard on eBay I've lost all faith I'm Ebsy
And the ugly reality of the clunky PayPal, et al ...
#bit.ly/NFqjmp
I have known several people who have sold items on eBay, only to be burned by deceitful buyers. Some of the techniques buyers used:
* In the case of "buyer's remorse", create cosmetic damage on parts not shown in auction photos. Buyer claims "item not as described" and gets to return it for free. Seller is forced to give full refund, plus pay for buyer's return shipping.
* Broken item exchange -- buyer already has this item, but its non functional. They buy yours, then send the broken one back. You have NO RECOURSE.
* Missing part claimed -- buyer says a part is missing, and either extorts a discount from the seller, or sends the item back for a full refund.
* Counterfeit item exchange -- buyer gets designer brand item, then sends back a Chinese knockoff of the same color and design. Despite the seller providing photographs of both, eBay will still side with the buyer.
--> I would never, I repeat NEVER, sell an item on eBay that is known to be counterfeited. You are just asking for trouble.
--> If you sell a valuable item on eBay, have a "buyer approval" clause for buyers that do not have a feedback rating of 100% for at least 100 items.
--> If you plan to offer your item overseas, insist that the buyer contact you first on shipping costs BEFORE winning the auction. This way you can see their feedback rating.
--> If a buyer contacts you about and item and you don't trust them, BLOCK them from buying anything from you. I once contacted a seller about an item and I had a lot of questions about it. The seller was rude to me, and then I discovered they had blocked me from bidding on the item... and I couldn't bid on anything else of theirs either! So, that's a good tool for helping to keep out unwanted buyers.
For those of you that do have legitimate claims against a seller, keep in mind that we see a lot of Scammers, and we sometimes think we're smelling BS. That could be why they are so rude or harsh.
He's dug his heels in, he doesn't care because he thinks the words "no refunds" covers him, but no, it does not. He sent me a faulty item and for all I know he knew it was faulty to begin with.
I'm really hoping ebay side with me and tell me where to send the mouse, otherwise my only other option is pay a further 10.99 for warrenty, wait out till day 45 then file a claim to get my mouse fixed or refunded. I'm sure square trade will love that but it really is my only other choice. I even told the seller I wouldnt give negative feedback. I have well over a thousand feedback now and like to give people the best customer service or respect everyone deserves. He has blatantly accused me of being a rogue buyer though so when this is all over they can have their negative feedback and shove it...
Was looking around in My eBay and noticed a message eBay is changing it's policy and user agreements i don't usually read this kind of stuff (lazy and don't know much about the law) but this stood out to me, looks like eBay is trying to make it clear that if you get scammed it has nothing to do with them and it is your risk. I have never read the user agreement before so this may have always been there but gee it stands out after reading these comments.
3.eBay is not an Auctioneer.
3.1 Online Auctions. Although we are commonly referred to as an online auction web site, it is important to realise that we are not a traditional "auctioneer". Instead, our Site merely acts as an online venue to allow members to communicate and offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of formats, including a fixed price format and an auction-style format commonly referred to as an "online auction". YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT EBAY IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL TRANSACTION BETWEEN BUYERS AND SELLERS. AS A RESULT, EBAY HAS NO CONTROL OVER THE QUALITY, SAFETY OR LEGALITY OF ITEMS OR CONTENT POSTED BY MEMBERS ON OUR SITE, THE TRUTH OR ACCURACY OF LISTINGS, THE ABILITY OF SELLERS TO SELL ITEMS OR THE ABILITY OF BUYERS TO BUY ITEMS. WE CANNOT ENSURE AND DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT A MEMBER OR BROWSER OF OUR SITE WILL ACTUALLY COMPLETE A TRANSACTION OR ACT LAWFULLY IN USING OUR SITE.
Well once OMBUDSMAN got involved and gace them 6 weeks to investigate I also sent a scathing letter with all my proof supporting my claim and bingo - my money was refunded to me straightaway! Plus each time the OMBUDSMAN investigate these bunch of crooks known as PAYPAL they have to pay the Financial Ombudsman £500! Get contacting people make them pay and let it hurt their pockets. Hope this helps
Linda x
I'm here because I have a buyer whose user i.d. is private and they show up on the scammer list at badbuyerlist.org. If they pay I really don't know what to do. They apparently have history of claiming different item sent or wrong item sent, etc. They've also been bidding on a ton of book items. I've tried to email some of the people they've bought books from to see how the transaction went, but ebay will only let me email 3 or 4 sellers per day to try to find out more about the buyer. Worried I'm going to lose my item and no matter what I do I can't protect myself.
Not even the major credit card companies demand direct access to their card users? banking accounts ?
(And an interesting case (from the UK I suspect) just above from ?Linda x? demonstrating the unscrupulousness of PreyPal and its clunky, hard-wired, buyer-biased transaction dispute mediation process (what mediation process?)) ?
That PreyPal should ?ship out? and sink to the bottom of the ocean (along with their ugly adoptive mother, eBafia) can?t happen to soon for me ?
Regardless, now that Visa?s ?professional? online digital wallet, ?V.me?, is available for general use in the US and Canada, (and MasterCard?s similar ?PayPass? product is not far away), except for its mandated use on the eBafia marketplace, PreyPal is effectively dead in the water ?
After I read this site, I realized this case got nowhere and guessed she would appeal to ebay buyer protection and let paypal take away my money. It's sad ebay never protects sellers and just let buyers do whatever they want! I didn't want to lose my item and money together, so I bitterly accepted a refund.
I believe she just didn't look good with the sweater when she received and tried it on. She knows how to take advantage of ebay protection program. Still resentful about her arrogant way to demand me a refund! Now I'm thinking about calling it quits..I feel it's a kind of risky to trade on ebay.
From all the research I have been doing it is abundantly clear that the scammers are taking over ebay. And not just the full time scammers either. With all the discussions all over the internet about how easy it is to get ripped off on ebay, it would seem that a lot of people who would be inclined to do this kind of stuff, but are not smart enough to figure it out on their own, are quickly getting a primer on how to do it and are moving in. I see ebay just started a new feature called 'Report a Buyer" in an apparent effort to start looking out for the scammers. Too little, too late. Ebay has become a happy hunting ground for scammers and petty thieves, and I would advise everyone to get out before you get burned.
I was on Ebay for 18 years, and have been selling for 5 years with a 100% feedback rating. I always figured it was just a matter of time before I got burned, and it has finally happened. What I did not expect was the total lack of support from Ebay. They evidently expect you to accept the losses as a cost of doing business on Ebay. My advice is to leave now. If you are selling there, you are a target and your turn will come very soon.
Buyer files a claim and asks Paypal 66 euro back.
What did Paypal? They sent me a message with "After careful consideration" et blabla.. and GAVE THE BUYER 178 EURO BACK, whilst buyer only asked for 66 euro.
CONCLUSION: PAYPAL DOESN'T EVEN READ CLAIMS
Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk ...
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking
I waited and waited. Then I waited some more. A month went by with no notice from PP. I was cleaning out my spam messages when I found the response. I had a quirky spam filter that allowed some messages to go through but others to be sent to the spam filter in spite of me whitelisting them.
I had been receiving pay pal messages just fine but that one message was sent to spam. I read the message and it said that if I did not respond they would close the claim in X amount of time. The time was up and my case was closed.
Contacting pay pal is a joke. It's a system invented by sociopaths who use circle talk and corporate lawyer doublespeak. My $300 remains in the hands of a crook who was aided by a company that claims they answer all your inquiries.
Lesson learned. I switched e-mail providers. I also cut way the heck back on the things I purchase from e-bay only using them when necessary.
I also used to sell on e-bay and I thought the buyers had all the rights. I had been screwed by buyers several times on e-bay. My experience was that if I set a low opening bid that was where the auction ended at. Only once did I get more than expected and even that was less than I paid for the item. I also sold on e-bay motors and had bad luck there too.
Now if I was a Nigerian crook I could probably be a millionaire by now. It seems that bidders gladly hand their money over to them and e-bay does little about them. They could block that entire country if they wanted but they won't
Videotape yourself packing and taping the product in the box, CLEARLY showing the item being sealed, and show the address on the shipping label.
When the scammer opens the case, offer to do everything to resolve the issue with the most helpful attitude possible, MAKE THEM THINK THE WON.
Then request a day time telephone number from the scammer. I tell them I need the number so the Postal Inspector can reach them for their investigation. I then upload the video to Youtube and email the buyer/scammer a link, and upload and email the link to Ebay and Paypal.
I then file a complaint with USPS Postal inspector.
You will be amazed how quickly the "lost item is found".
In 14 cases like this, we are batting 100% in my favor.
TURN CROOKS OVER TO LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!!!
Regard
I uploaded the video to You Tube and included the video link in the Pay Pal dispute. I then shared the link with the scammer buyer so they could see the item being packed.
It seems that just the threat of being investigated was enough for the scammer to "find the item".
I am hoping they will start getting deluged with Paypal complaints and maybe we can get some positive action. I have already won a complaint against Paypal when they withdrew funds from my banking account without my permission.
This happened to me, pretty much verbatim, 4 years ago. I sold an industrial item, NIB, worth $250, to a buyer with no feedback. He claimed the battery charger (included) wasn't included. He asked for a battery charger to be sent to him. The item was purchased wholesale, they don't sell the battery chargers separately, and it would have cost me $400 to buy a new set just for the battery charger, and then I would have been left with a useless set. So I asked him to send it back to me and I'd refund him. To make a long story short he was lying, I got him to admit it, in an email, but then he opened a dispute with Paypal. They froze my account. I escalated the dispute and sent in all documentation - the tracking number, all the emails between me and the scammer, photos, etc. After 6 weeks PayPal awarded the scammer a partial refund of $100 and change. I couldn't believe they were awarding him anything after all the proof I had sent them and discussed on the phone. So I escalated it again, phoning customer support with my proof. After a few more weeks they decided to award the scammer the FULL AMOUNT, PLUS SHIPPING AND FEES AND HE GOT TO KEEP THE PRODUCT! They debited my account but since I had already withdrawn the money it went into a negative balance and they have been demanding that balance ever since. I of course refused. They sent me to a credit agency and ruined my life for a few years, for $100 and change. The customer lived in the same city as me, in Canada, but what could I do. I have his address. Confronting him would get me arrested and Paypal and ebay have already caused me enough problems, I don't need to get arrested as well.
I have thought about getting back onto ebay using a different payment method, but since the whole world loves paypal, I realize it would probably not be worth the hassle even if it was possible. The alternatives - ProPay is not available in Canada, you can't integrate Skrill into your eBay.ca auctions, and you're not allowed to offer paper payments.
Continued below...
Anyway, after reading the comments here and on numerous other sites I realize there is no way to protect yourself from scammers on ebay, so even without using PayPal, I would just get scammed again and there's nothing I could do to prevent it or recover the money/product after the fact.
That isn't the worst of it - PayPal is taking over electronic payments on the internet - it's not limited to eBay. I cannot use my PayPal account and refuse to clear the negative balance on my account. They refuse to lift the entry on my credit rating - I even said I would pay them if they would do so, but they refused to even admit they had screwed my credit rating.
And what's to stop them from doing this to me again, by protecting another scammer. So why should I settle with them. I intend never to use PayPal again, for anything.
Good luck to all who have been burned by Paypal.
Well the Seller has been slow in responding and insists it was in the envelope. I'm not sure what to do next. Seriously, this is my last ebay purchase. Is the scam that they have proof via the delivery confirmation that it was received? In the auction they had a picture of the card with just the top of the receipt. But now in retrospect, they didn't show where is shows the value. That was conveniently covered by the card. So it could have been any receipt.
I'm going to wait until tomorrow. I've sent 4 messages to the seller. Sent pictures of the envelopes. Do I contact my credit card company, Paypal, or ebay?
I made it a pointto know every scam available for the last 15 years, no scam can get by, i am not kidding. I have even thought of scams they have not tried.
there are loop holes but if the seller knows them, all of them. any scam can be avoided. The trick to the pay pal phone thing you all are describing is demanding to talk to a supervisor that knows the rules and can comprehend them in full. if you can describe your case perfectly to a person that knows and can comprhende the rules you will prevail. Many times people have tried to get over on me and they always fail, almost always it's some foriegner. here is the BIGGIE that almost no one does. If you think it smells fishy, take the item to the post office in person, buy a confirmation number, spend 1.00 more and get a CERTIFICATE of mailing and have the clerk sign it. this little know item can be scanned and sent to pay pal for undeniable proof YOU sent it. also - take a pic of the item in the box with the lable showing. REALLY! I am running out of characters here. there is more. I could write a book.
In 2 yrs trading I have encountered just one UK 'Not Received' case. I made, and sent at my own cost, 12 items! :(
... For the 12th item I despaired and drove 216miles, (i.e. 432 return!!), to hand deliver to my 'put-out' Customer's door.
I was met by the living epitome of Vicky Pollard and, thankfully, for THAT item, hand delivered at great cost, I received Positive Feedback!
I work on average 120hrs a week for (FAR..FAR) below minimum wage. My feedback is exemplary and I receive several emails each day saying how great my items are and how little I charge... but, sadly, I stay awake at night for fear of con-artists abusing eBay's processes to get a 'freebie' through threatening 'Negative Feedback' :(
I'm a single Dad, with two kids, and have never claimed any benefits...but each and every week I give away, perhaps, 20+hours of very hard, quality, work simply through fear and paranoia of ever receiving a single 'eBay negative' response :(
Thankfully I never have done so :)...but I do not know for how much longer I can carry on like this: Being held to ransom by lazy, X-Factor watching, criminals.
When I worked in London I used to deal with eBay Reps on a monthly basis and (when they left), we used to laugh at their ill-fitting/last-season 'Next' suits.... but now that I am self-employed I wish I could show the brash 'Youngens' how much, degrading, power they inadvertently wield :(
*sobs lots*
First, check this website.
##russianpost.ru/rp/servise/en/home/postuslug/trackingpo
All parcels enter Russia change be tracked on this website. If it has a tracking number you will be able to track it on here, this will also have you with PayPal as they check with website. Last week I had a tracking number that couldn't be tracked on USPS as it showed as not being delivered and I emailed the tracking details to PayPal from this website and they closed the dispute in my favor.
Secondly, Always send items Express Post and use Stamps.com with there insurance. Why you may ask?! to put in insurance claim with PIP (who Stamps.com sure) all you need is an email from your buyer to say it wasn't delivered and they will pay on the claim and it's quick like 7 to 10 days and you will have a check in the mail, and they cover everything, don't get me wrong as soon as you put in an insurance claim they will drop you from there insurance, but it will help and then you can work out if this is what you want to do.
Thirdly, never under value your customs information, if your items cost $1500, say this. Yes the person will have to pay duty but you will have a better change in getting your item returned to sender. Don't get me wrong there is a 85% chance that it will be stole by customs as it leaves the Russia, but if it's is insured you will get your money back even with USPS it will just take a 45 days, but if there is missing items USPS mostly pay a claim, you just need to make you post person see that it's missing so they can report it and your claim can be paid. Also if you sell mobile phones or anything with an IMEI number or MAC address note these down as you can report the IMEI number on more and more websites now and it will be blocked and the phone will not work in any country. Yes you lost your product, but the person that has stolen it will not be able to use it as well.
Don't get me wrong this is a lot of work to do, but I am use to it now and I feel that anything that stops people from making money off of this is worth every effort I can put in this to stop them. The sooner Russian is Banned from eBay the better it will be, but people always find away around it. Give it time and they will get busted.
My history is - more than hundred purchases (amongst them are musical equipment, board games, clothes, anique stuff and books). I had several minor problems with Chinese sellers and had one broken item from USA dealer. But I believe this wasn't fraud or something, just coincidence.
There are many people who blamed russian sellers and sometimes you've got a point, but the situation is quite different that you describe about them.
Yes we have scammer among the sellers, that's true, mostly they buy something small and expensive - like jewellry or cellphones. But there is second and main reason when you shouldn't send these types of items to Russia - this is our Russian Post. Look how they store the parcel on the street where -30 degress celsius, you can find the pictures in the internet. Also we have many robberies during shipment, how do they do it? Easy! Unseal box, take the item, put some # inside with similar weight (pebbles or cheap coins etc) and seal off it accurately. On the tracking list everything will be ok, don't doubt.
But me and my friends from Russia often deal with musical dealers and have good relationship, do you know why? Because of Russian post! The same reason, thieves don't steal musical equipment even for 2000$ because they don't know what is guitar compressor means, ah some peace of crap for 2 bucks. I got two USPS boxes which were opened but none had been stolen, do you know why? The same, what is the crap is "guitar phaser".
My advice to USA sellers is don't send to Russia expensive jewellry, laptops, cellphones, and recently expensive photo cameras. Sometimes the shipment of these items becomes a lottery.
* "we have scummers among the buyers" not sellers
Sorry for my english :)
I don't accept it, don't use it. But we just have to deal with it and understand that thieves have became much smarter.
Then ebay blocked my account.
Ebay treat seller like an enemy.
All this scamming going on is not costing Ebay anything. We, the stupid people, are funding their operation.
I would suggest either leaving Ebay or complaining about it to your US Senator as well as your Representative. When they get enough complaints, they will put the heat on. Senator Durbin's office sent me a letter that they have started receiving a lot of complaints about Paypal, and they are considering more oversight.
The problem with ebay's position, is that the post office stamps (or labels) packages that are received empty. If the package is not stamped, then it didn't arrive at the post office empty. But eBay ignores this fact. I don't understand their position. I smell a class action suit in the wind.
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1) The carrier in USPS smoke in their trucks sometimes and the packages will hold the smell of it for over two weeks. So it is very possible you dont smoke but your package can arrive that way (I had carrier at old house that I had to report because eventually ALL my parcels smelled bad of smoke)
2) Russia and Italy take VERY low to deliver I do mean beyond the 45 days allowed sometimes. Their customs also take a lot of items so it VERY possible the buyer did not scam you. It is also possible since a high item was still at customs office and can be held for 2 months. If it was not labeled properly such as hand written then it can take up to 4-5 months to return to you. I recently had a parcel in last week show from Canada that was shipped in October and was refused. It is now February and I JUST got it back and Im in USA? Unfortunately Ive had items usually take 2 months to get to Russia, Italy, Indonesia is worse on times, Australia can be long sometimes.
3) I have had an occasion where I got an empty envelope back from post office to my address that I shipped (Life lesson is not ship certain items in envelopes or tape the heck out of them because the conveyor belts of postal system can rip open certain cheap boxes or envelopes so it is VERY possible that piece of jewelry fell from conveyor belt heaven and buyer never got it. My next question is why if they jewelry was so valuable would you ship in an envelope? box that crap up. The conveyor belts or being crushed by a package could damage it. Most sellers dont undrestand the postal system and all it contains like conveyor belts.
4) Ive had certain items arrived wet because the post office left in rain. I usually have great buyers who you kindly explain to them and have them report post office and then they are okay with you as a seller.
Not all cases are scams like people think. I recently sold a $150 transaction of three items and I forgot postal code for international buyer. I now know it may be months before that package is either delivered or sent back to me. My fault. Not the buyers. However, a lot of sellers would run yelling scammer!!
I sold an iphone recently and put only USA buyers and put signaturte confirmation on that parcel. Never heard from buyer but says delivered so I believe im good but I have to wait out that next 30 days to see what happens. Cost me $17 to ship it on free shipping item. lol. I never told them I was putting Sign Confirm on it though so I may have saved myself. Not everyone buying Iphone is scammer on Ebay. I know that I have seen a lot since 2003 as buyer and seller. I got called scammer a few times and it was not the case. Many DVDs and games shipped to me over years had broken cases and sometimes damaged CDs from that breaking. I make sure I ship my DVDs and games in boxes seeing that. It helps being a buyer and seller. You learn some things from both sides to help you.
I never realized some things like shipping in bubble envelope doesnt protect a case from breaking in postal system or that item could fall out of envelope (regular envelope) or that it takes SO long to deliver to certain countries or if things arent accepted by buyer or picked up then it takes months to get back to you. I learned quickly about delivery confirmation on every single USA thing I ship and in years i never had a not received case. (imagine that? ;) ) I had to learn though through experience.
Far better to make complaints about Paypal and Ebay to your US Senator and Representatives. There is virtually no oversight by the Federal Govt on Paypal or Ebay. This is done by the individual States Attorneys, so it is hard to get any meaningful reform.
Senator Durbin's office indicated that they are receiving an increasing number of complaints about Paypal. What is needed is a deluge of complaints about Paypal and Ebay to our elected officials so that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau charter will be expanded to cover both of these lousy businesses.
It is easy to complain. Just go to yourelected officials website and send an email demanding federal oversight and consumer ripoff resolution. When they get enough complaints, they will stomp on Ebay and Paypal. Until then, nothing will happen.
Ebay and Paypal are making money hand over fist, and they do not pay for their foolish policies; you do. Until it starts costing them money or threatens their bottom line, nothing will happen.
So start complaining to the people who can actually do something; your elected officials.
Regardless, "wire fraud" is a federal crime and if the system worked at all you should be able to bet the "Feds" to do something about any "online" fraud ...
And the ugly reality for consumers dealing with the clunky, unscrupulous eBay/PayPal complex ...
"Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5" ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
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The seller refused to refund my money paid through PayPal. EBay said that I had no right to refuse the tires REGARDLESS OF HOW LATE THEY WERE DELIVERED and I was NOT COVERED by so-called "Buyer Protection". PayPal (which is owned by eBay) said I had to work it out with the seller. The seller, of course, just laughed at me. He had the tires back AND HE HAD MY MONEY. I've spoken to my eBay customers who have been similarly abused. HERE'S THE RULE: WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH A BIG VOLUME SELLER on eBay and there is a dispute, EBAY WILL ALWAYS TAKE THE SIDE OF THE SELLER. The high-volume seller generates thousands and thousands of dollars of revenue for eBay. How much does a lone consumer generate. EBAY will ALWAYS TAKE THE SIDE OF THE VOLUME SELLER and frack the little guy.
The safety of sellers is very important too. Guys, being and managing a big company like eBay or PayPal is very difficult. Especially a virtual business. I think they are doing a good job. This is all sellers and buyers that are making a mess. Even managing an account on eBay is sometimes very tough.
And the ugly reality for consumers dealing with the clunky, unscrupulous eBay/PayPal complex ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
Unless you are a big seller like Newegg, you will get ripped off in this environment they have created.
I would advise smaller sellers to take another look at ebid. They have been growing due to the amount of both buyers and sellers jumping the ebay ship.
So after a bit of research I have found quite a few other sites, #1 is webstore.com, This is an amazing site so far (They even created a category just for the types of items I sell) They charge no fees for buying or selling. They ask only for a 3% donation if you sell something, which I happily pay to help keep the auction site free.
Other places you may want to look into are ebid, onlineauction.com, webidz.com, ubid.com... There are also many others that can be found within a few minutes of searching the internet.
A customer bought 10 tablet PCs from me and paid immediately, as it was required by me. Total transaction amount is 650 USD.
He asked me to ship all the items separately, one item/package due to lower risk at the customs. I did that for him. I shipped the 10 packages with airmail with tracking. But I read now that signature confirmation is required over 250 USD. I do not have it since I shipped all the packages with simple China airmail with trackings.
Now if my buyer claims that he did not receive the order, PayPal will take my money away? Even if I tell them that I shipped all the 10 tablet PCs separately? Thanks!
provide tracking for them post them all in the comments of the investigation, keep in communication BY PHONE with pay pal. demand to speak to a supervisor. keep all your emails with the rip off guy, make sure you post the emails telling you to send them all in separate packages. make SURE YOU INCLUDE THE HEADER for each email - make a detailed report that can be sent quickly and professionally so it can be understood by a complete idiot because that is who you will be sending them to. Pay Pal does not hire smart people. if the investigation is going wrong for you demand to speak to a supervisor. if the pay pal agent insists that is not possible hang up on them call back and demand to speak to a supervisor. can't stress that enough.
the pay the supervisors a little more to be smarter. You may get to keep your money this way, but it is your only shot. I can't believe you fell for that shipping thing. wow. after you have the guys payment already the balls in your court. even if he asks for something like that - ship it the way you said in the description. that's the deal and he can't change it. don't be silly again.
#2 if you do not have the sac to perform act #1 contact me. violence is just another day at the office and getting up close and intimate with law enforcement personnel doesn't bother me in the least. In fact I get great pleasure from showing piggies how the bacon is made.
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And, they put advertisements for other people's items in YOUR listing.
Then, THEY determine how much you can charge for shipping. The really want you to ship for free.
They care nothing about security because that costs the money.
And, then there are the bogus patents the eBay uses to prevent competition.
Enjoy,
xxx
I will reiterate what I have said before, unless you are a big time seller, you will get burned if you keep selling on Ebay. It happened to me and when it did I could not believe it. Don't wait until Paypal all of a sudden reaches into your bank account without your express permission and withdraws a substantial amount of money to cover a Buyer Protection case. If you stay there, it will happen.
On some computer forums, members are talking about ways to get "free" $800.00 high-end graphics cards. What they are talking about is exactly the same situation you ran into. If you stay, it will just happen again. You should have just left Ebay and gone to Ebid and set up a Google checkout account.
When you have a negative balance like that, if you do not refund, Ebay will eventually refund the buyer out of their own pocket and suspend your account until you pay up. If you do not pay up, they send it to a collection agency.
That is what happened to me. I told the collection agent that this was not a valid debt as it was not a fee or payment for service. As a buyer protections case, Ebay has an option to refund the buyer or not. If they elect to refund the buyer, that is not your fault. I sent the collection agent a certified letter after our conversation, and they decided they did not want to pursue debts incurred due to buyer protection cases as they would almost certainly lose in court, and it opens Ebay to a countersuit on your own home turf. You do not need to go to California to file the lawsuit in this instance.
So, do not keep money in your Paypal account, and as soon as a big money buyer protection case is filed, close your bank account immediately and remove any credit cards you have on file. Then leave. They will never collect, and it won't be on your credit report.
/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18417&Itemid=8#comment-11406
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Needless to say once the summons was delivered by the county sheriff at eBay's and PayPal's corporate offices to their legal department things moved fast and it got resolved to my favor to drop the lawsuit.
Evidently they don't want the bad publicity and they DO NOT have a leg to stand on when you have delivery proof.
The ugly reality for consumers dealing with the clunky, unscrupulous eBay/PayPal complex ...
"eBay-Facilitated Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay Auctions: Case Study #5" ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
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Visit this site and sign up to sue PayPal.
A buyer with 4 feedback bought my item, after received,
he just claim "not as described"
money being HELD and ebay asking he ship it back to me, guess what??
He shipped a box of junk back to me instead and he get his money back.
I report this issue to ebay but they cannot do anything as tracking show item returned already...
so ebay believe a buyer with 4 feedback said item not as described.
but NOT believe a toprated seller over 30000 feedback who received JUNK...
I do know package lost or stolen is a extra cost on top of a business.
but you know.. it do make me mad when those scammer can steal money from seller officially....
by the way, I sell photo equipment, guess how many item I have to sell to cover that 1 fraud... well.... I am leaving ebay soon.. :(
Ebay agreed with me and even removed ratings where a buyer said I am selling fakes, but Paypal sided with the buyers and refunded their money.
But the bad thing about these transactions is that Paypal let the buyers keep the items and I lost the original new watches which was Ceramic plus the original watch boxes which are very expensive.
NICE TIP FOR EVERYONE. Does not matter what you do. Do not sell on Ebay. the chances is very good that you will lose a lot of money. Rather start looking for items of which something have been changed and is not exactly the same as a new one anymore, like a winder which was changed, a replacement strap, glass or crystal or even a belt buckle in the case with watches. AND GO FOR EXPENSIVE ITEMS.wHAT ABOU A FREE #?? When you receive the item, go to a shop (evey second shop will do it without looking at the item)and get a letter stating the item is not authentic but a fake because of the change which the seller made on the item even if he stated it on his auction. Paypal will refund you and you can keep the item for free.
This might even work with cars as most second hands cars most probably have some replacement parts on it which is not 100% anymore.
Just imagine how much money can be made this way with computers, cameras, watches, etc. etc. and when you keep the free items and you don't want it fo yourself, you sell your free items on another auction site.
We can make a lot of money this way.
how could anyone be that silly man?! You let the buyer tell you what to do after you already got paid? LOL
and you didn't know the 250.00 rule before you starting selling?
more than worried you should be man. that stuffs gone.
that guy sucker punched you big time.
Just in case no someone else doesn't know this the 250.00 even includes the shipping sent.
if i buy a 10.00 item, for example say from Greece, and the shipping is 245.00 that's over 250. see? im not kidding - it really works that way.
buy a 200.00 item and the shipping is 65.00 your 15.00 over. seller is screwed without tracking and signature confirmation.
The only way this was sent to a dead address center is if you did not put your return address on it, usps priority will come back to the sender.
If you have tracking, and your receipt, go back to the post office and show them, once they find they cannot find your package and it was not delivered you will get a check for that item even if you did not buy insurance as long as it is under 100.00
Lastly. stop being silly.
I say this is funny but it's not even original really. I mean this is classic Nigerian techniques - old school bad form. At least you typed in in proper English.
Contact this James guy for large sticks to be kicked directly into your anus. LOL
I had a very bad experience recently with eBay where a buyer made a false claim about a brand new item I had sold him. The claim was so false it was laughable but eBay nevertheless refused to remove the negative feedback he had viciously left me. It took a month of emails between the two of us before he finally retracted his negative feedback leaving me with my 100% positive yet again.
Paypal are total crooks, they don't take into account how many years you have been a customer of their's - they simply rule over cases like a blind king abusing his power. It is high time that governments of countries passed laws to regulate the two cowboys eBay and PayPal. They are running out of control with their nonsensical rules and regulations aimed at ripping off the innocent and rewarding the crooks.
It is therefore important to everyone who has been ripped off by Ebay or Paypal to complain to their US Senator and Congressman. It is easy to do; just go to their website and leave an email.
This is the only way anything will ever get done. Until that happens, Ebay and Paypal will continue to rake in the cash at the Seller's expense. They assume no risk; the Seller's assume all the risk. If you are a seller, and have not yet been victimized, rest assured it will happen to you. Get pro-active and launch a complaint to your Congressman now.
eBay is the greatest calculated facilitator of auction fraud that the world is ever likely to know ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
Oh no, not another "reduction" in eBay user fees ... #bit.ly/YvxFEg
#badbuyerlist.org/
I would love to see a scammer try and take someone to court for a libel lawsuit. Bwahahahaha
##badsellerlist.com/
It's a plain and simple fact that people just do not read the rules for eBay, they do not keep update with all the BS changes that are made, they think selling on line is easy money and no problem and easily understood. Well, guess what, the scammers know you are out there. You people that sign contracts with companies like eBay and never bother to read any rules. HILARIOUS! I am glad that there are people out there like you guys, it takes the heat off the scammer pots. see a real Scammer back in the day had to keep on top of #, he really had to know what he was doing and stay informed, look sharp and be smart.
Now? You , any old bum, any 15 year old kid, any little girl with a ipod can scam your silly ass because you thought it would be easy to sell stuff online. LOL You didn't need to read the terms, the conditions, or even the basic structure of the selling and or buying process. YUP! You thought that was all Bull#, but now that your out some dough you are crying about it, you can't even take the blame, you are blaming it ion the scammer, you are blaming it ion eBay, you are blaming it on Pay Pal. LOL
SERIOUSLY - you can smoke a scammer if you are prepared for them. I can't even count how many I have Jammed up in the past 19 years. It's a sport for me now, I will seek the S.O.B's out and destroy them. If there were enough people like me and less people like you there would be no scammers, only because there would be no profit it anymore.
But then I would not have the fun of reading these posts every week or so.
No law and no order is a two-way street. :D
Sorry that this happened to you Mr. Coles.
Let us not forget that these evil "buyers"/THIEVES will not go unnoticed by God!
Currently, Paypal is considered a money transmitter, and as such falls under the purview of the individual states attorneys. This essentially means that Paypal can pretty much do as it pleases, which also means ebay can do pretty much as it pleases as ebay owns Paypal. The best way to cause positive change to both these organizations is to have Paypal regulated like a bank by the Federal Government. Under this scenario, Paypal could no longer take money out of your bank account for ebay fees at will (among other things).
Getting Paypal regulated is achievable, and is the single most effective way to get ebay to start changing some of its more ridiculous policies.
We are coming up to the 2014 mid-term elections folks, and if our elected representatives hear the same thing about Paypal from a malority of their constituents, something WILL get done. So, get off your butts and start emailing your United States Senators as well as your House Representatives and tell them it is time for Paypal to be regulated by the government! I have written Senator Durbin several times about this issue and his office staff has responded that they are starting to get a lot of complaints about Paypal. If we keep up the pressure we can really throw a giant monkey wrench into the ebay machine.
SO, get to emailing!
1. Contact your local state congressman and provide them with written documentation about ebay's wrong doings. If your local rep. does nothing then make clear you will be voting against them in the next election.
2. Contact your state's Attorney General. Your AG can sue ebay and bring criminal charges against ebay. I suggest you wait until you gotten rid of your remaining inventory before doing this, or sell elsewhere, because ebay will retaliate against you by various means which will not be able to prove.
3. If you can't do the above and are too lazy then you only have yourself to blame.
a - This is a form of extortion, which is clearly one reason your probably jaded against eBay.
2. You can't sue a company for holding you responsible to their policies, and if you do you'll just be losing money as you're not going to win. (Also eBay is a large company, and composes it self professionally, the idea that a large company would waste time messing with a single person is ridiculous)
Now what you should actually do -
Any time someone tries to do a charge back, contact PayPal and work closely with them to get it resolved as they'll help you fight the case. If for any other problem, just contact eBay they'll generally give you the best course of action.
The last comment i'll make. Remember that you're running your own business, yes business, eBay/PayPal isn't there to take the loss for you and yes you will more than likely get hit with a loss at some point in time. It's going to happen unfortunately as not all buyers are truthful, prepare yourself for it. This is how you'll be successful.
Buyer bought $2k worth of gift cards from me via Ebay and paypal checkout, now I knew he was fishy to begin with and there would be no seller protection for gift cards, but I'm a reasonably seasoned seller so I knew if I could prove the buyer had received them as mentioned by Ebay messages and post tracking, I would be bullet proof against any claim...WRONG!
I received my cash in my account no problem, over night I woke up (6hrs later) to see the $2 payment had been reversed and a new case opened as 'unauthorised purchase' and closed due to no 'seller response' within minutes of each other according to the action logs.
Point 1: how can a case and decision be made within minutes, that leads to $2k worth of cash refunded?
So ok, no problems, I thought I'd submit a evidence on appeal clearly showing the buyer had signed for the packages 'under their name' and mentioned in the Ebay messages they received the items and all was dandy/authentic.
And the decision: well you guessed it, against me, apparently because I don't qualify for seller protection, so everything I submitted means absolutely nothing, even if the evidence is concrete by the book.
Point 2: How do you even get disqualified for 'buyer protection', if everything is stacked against you?
Now I am going to once again reappeal, with all guns blazing, even collected evidence by chatting to another seller who was also 'scammed' by the same seller. If I get the same response from Paypal....that's just bluntly ridiculous, I'd just admit defeat stop hoping for at least my money back and going straight to cyber-crime police at least assist in getting him arrested.
Your story has too many variables. missing ports of the story. if i knew the whole story i bet I could help.
a gift card - some one paid 2000.00 for gift cards? were they sent online? not through the mail? an Unauthorized purchase is what would come up if the credit card was reported stolen. if the card was reported stolen and only 6 hours had gone by - unable to contact the seller rule would not fly if your information on eBay was correct. IE: email and phone. easy to prove for you. INSIST to speak to a supervision while you are in the phone with pay pal. The reason people loose is they take no for an answer and they do not have the facts straight. ( meaning all stupid people loose.) for real. that's how they loose. I am not trying to insult you, I am telling you not to be stupid and you will win.
I have won every single time some one tried to scam me. I have even come out on top and reversed the scam on the scammer a few times. I love that!
I, and many here, could have told you how it would go down. Sellers never win a buyer protection case. Ebay and Paypal are all about making money for themselves, and could care less about their sellers losing money. They need buyers to keep their machine running.
One thing you may try is when you appeal drop in there a notice that you intend to file a complaint with the State Attorney General if their decision is not reversed. That is the only governmental agency with any regulatory power over Paypal right now.
I would also urge you to write up your experience about this and file complaints with your US Senator as well as your US Representative with a request they pass legislation to regulate Payapl as they do banks. That is the only way Ebay and Paypal will be held accountable in the long term for their actions.
The $2k is a lot of money, and in the end it was my fault for dancing on thin ice so I will let bygones be bygones, but It's just ridiculous how over the years of of me being a big seller and possibly passing through over a $1mil of funds, Paypal cannot even help me by seeing the obvious fraud in front their face even if I did all the investigation for them (HILARIOUS).
It's really a hate/love relationship, Ebay/Paypal know they have all the traffic and I know that too, so I can't just pack my bags and move my business elsewhere.
I asked why did he ship when I asked for it to be canceled. He says he didn't read his messages and just dropped it in the mailbox. I'm asking him for tracking information but he is ignoring me.
What to do? If I return it and there is no tracking he can claim I never returned the item.
I want help not to feel worst than I already am at the moment. So screw you.
Worried for nothing >_<
The only thing I'm concerned about now though was that he sent it via UPS. I haven't opened the package but can place Return to Sender on it drop it in the their box? I couldn't refuse it at the door because the UPS guy just dropped the package at my door and left it sitting there. Glad no one had taken it.
But I get what you are saying, a case has to be opened first. So in other words, eBay could care less how pong it takes for someone to send you your item until you complain about it.
The ugly reality of eBay Inc.:
eBay's crooked auctions marketplace ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
eBay Motors: Auction Fraud Galore ? #bit.ly/I2gTEU
eBay's clunky, unscrupulous "PreyPal" ... #bit.ly/UVXx53
The ongoing joke of eBay Inc. ... #bit.ly/YvxFEg
Fun quotes from the eBay executive suite ... #bit.ly/12xvzyA
Shill bidding fraud by professional sellers on eBay nominal-start auctions is endemic; many of the bidders who bid early and often on such auctions are most likely these sellers' shills, and eBay Inc. is demonstrably the greatest knowing and calculated facilitator of such fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know, and doubtless there will be a trickle down effect of like criminal activity to all other eBay operations ...
And what does the "smart money" on Wall Street think about eBay? Well, in August 2007, shortly before Bain?s Johnny Ho took the captain?s chair, the share prices of both eBay and Amazon were ~$40; today, eBay is ~$54; Amazon is ~$398 ?
Now, seriously, what more can be said, other than ...
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking ...
- It Clearly States The Following Isn't Covered For Any Other Reason Other Then Not Receiving Item Or Item Not as Described:
The following isn't covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee:
Buyer's remorse or any reason other than not receiving an item or receiving an item that isn't as described in the listing. (See the seller's return policy for return options.)
Duplicate claims through other resolution methods
Items shipped to another address after original delivery
Vehicles (see the eBay Vehicle Protection Program), Real Estate, Business & Websites for Sale, Classified Ads, services, and some Business Equipment categories (see the eBay Business Equipment Purchase Protection).
Items purchased on half.com, eBay Wholesale Deals, or eBay Classifieds
#PhilipCohen
Your implying that eBay is aware of every person who shill bids, and is ok with them doing so. Which I can attest is very much so not the case. We remove many many seller/buyers for these violations daily. We've also taken initiative lately to remove a very large quantity of sellers who were not meeting our standards going into the Christmas season this year as we wanted to insure we were providing great customer service during peak season. I once again can assure you eBay, is not ok with direct policy violations such as shill bidding, and we take action of these types of situations daily.
As for your obvious attempt at trolling and being uneducated about the situation with John Donahoe. He took the reigns in March 2008, if you look at the stock prices he's doubled stock pricing since he took the reigns. Then being 25 dollars, and as I type this them being at 53$ Just because your unhappy with not being able to do what ever when ever you want, doesn't mean the company has taken a turn for the worse. We have changed, and adapted very much so. But if you look at it in a business aspect, numbers don't lie the company is doing much better and providing much more business for sellers now then it was when he came into power. Good luck with the trolling though.
Your implying that eBay is aware of every person who shill bids, and is ok with them doing so. Which I can attest is very much so not the case. We remove many many seller/buyers for these violations daily. We've also taken initiative lately to remove a very large quantity of sellers who were not meeting our standards going into the Christmas season this year as we wanted to insure we were providing great customer service during peak season. I once again can assure you eBay, is not ok with direct policy violations such as shill bidding, and we take action of these types of situations daily."
You are so obviously a disingenuous eBay shill?or a fool; undoubtedly you are an employee of the eBay Dept of Spin; regardless, you speak with an obvious "forked tongue" and I submit my case study on the blatant and massive shill bidding eBay seller eDropOff (and others) as proof of my assertions of eBay?s criminality ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
How can you tell when an eBay spokesperson is being disingenuous? Their lips are moving ?
Now please, go away eBay shill ...
?? over the last 3 years, I've replaced 75 of the top 100 people in this company.??John Donahoe (18 Jan 2012)
What an awesome management decision huh?
?There?s a real push to keep doing what you?re doing because it?s working.? - John Donahoe (2007) ...
Really, I can't imagine anyone wanting to do that ...
?We talk and listen to customers, but for this kind of innovation, customers don't always know what they want.? - John Donahoe (2007) ...
So, there you are, Johnny Ho knows better than you what you want ...
?Even though people think I?m an expert at technological innovation, my own instinct for technology was frozen in place in 1982.? - John Donahoe (2007) ...
On the first part, who could possibly think that? On the second, never a truer word was spoken by Johnny Ho ...
?We?ve had the disruption, now we?re having to disrupt the disruption.? - John Donahoe (2007) ...
And, six years later, what is there to show for all the Ho?s disruption? ...
?We had to create a vision of the future so people could let go of a very successful past.? - John Donahoe (2007) ...
Well, he certainly has achieved that goal, to ?let go of a very successful past?, that is ...
?... is there going to be some noise along the way? There is.? - John Donahoe (2008) ...
How's all that ?noise? now, Johnny Ho, still ringing in your ears? ...
?We are driving more changes than ever. There are no silver bullets, we're testing in different geos, when we find things that work, we'll do more of them and less of the ones that don't.? - John Donahoe (2008) ...
We have no idea of what we are doing but we are doing it anyway ...
?There are a lot of people talking about mobile payments these days.? - John Donahoe (2012)
Only in your hallucinations, Johnny Ho ...
?Our ambition is to be the strategic partner of choice for every leading retailer, brand and manufacturer across the world ?? - eBay Employment Ad (2013) ...
Johnny Ho is delusional, of course; then, we are all entitled to dream ...
So, we have established that Johnny Ho was in control in August 2007. And what then does the "smart money" on Wall Street think about eBay since? Well, in August 2007 the share prices of both eBay and Amazon were ~$40; today, eBay is ~$54; Amazon is ~$398 ...
bit.ly/11F2eas
I really don?t mean to insult you but you are so obviously a disingenuous eBay shill so I don?t expect you to peruse this case study; however, if you do bother to peruse the ?hard facts? supplied therein, I don?t doubt that you, like that other disingenuous eBay stooge, Chris Van Wagoner, will also not be able to see any indication of shill bidding on eDropOff?s auctions ...
I await your response - the response that I would expect from an eBay shill - that indeed you too can see no indication of shill bidding on eDropOff auctions ... LOL
Judy
eBay's crooked auctions marketplace ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
eBay Motors (UK): Auction Fraud Galore ? #bit.ly/I2gTEU
eBay's clunky, unscrupulous "PreyPal" ... #bit.ly/UVXx53
The ongoing joke of eBay Inc. ... #bit.ly/YvxFEg
Fun quotes from the eBay executive suite ... #bit.ly/12xvzyA
Shill bidding fraud by professional sellers on eBay nominal-start auctions is demonstrably endemic; bidders who bid early and often on such auctions will most likely be sellers' shills, and eBay Inc. is?also demonstrably?the greatest knowing and calculated facilitator of such fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know and, doubtless, there will be a trickle down effect of like criminal activity to other eBay operations ...
The only thing that surprises me about this online criminal enterprise is that it has not yet summoned up the gall to further hide this endemic shill bidding fraud by converting its auctions wholly to its devious ?private listing? format, or by changing bidding IDs to ?Bidder 1?, ?Bidder 2?, ?Bidder 3?, etc, as they initially were going to do when Donahoe first introduced the additional layer of anonymity for (shill) bidders in 2008, nor?surprisingly?have they yet ceased to publish the details of "completed" listings, a post-sale analysis of which can, with some effort, clearly demonstrate this endemic fraud and eBay's calculated facilitation thereof ...
And what does the "smart money" on Wall Street think about eBay? Well, in August 2007, when the "Pain From Bain", Johnny Ho, was already effectively in control of eBay, the share prices of both eBay and Amazon were ~$40; today, eBay is ~$54; Amazon is ~$395 ... Now, seriously, what more can be said, other than ...
eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking ...
I also have to wonder if Pierre Omidyar has ever thought about just how much more fabulously wealthy he would now have been had he, before Johnny Ho took control, traded his eBay stock in for Amazon stock, or had he not ok?d the handing over of the control of eBay to this unscrupulous, incompetent, destructive, narcissistic sociopath?
Now as for your statements about John, you can have what ever ridiculous opinion you would like. You're obviously not into facts since your using comments about a business as a hire date for the man. Your not interested in anything other than your silly opinion about the state of the company. The fact that your still comparing Amazon (a retailer, in both music, film, and many other aspects) against an auction website is insane. They're two totally different business models, with different definitions and goals. eBay doesn't want to replace it's sellers with it's own market, nor do we want to create a tablet/eReader or sell music. You're just being plain stupid at this point.
Amazon = Retailer (that also has sellers, which it will replace if it's profitable for them)
eBay = Venue for sellers.
Jone Donahoe took over in March 2008, and has over doubled stock prices since then.
Those are the facts, your rants and skewed perception of things can continue now.
You really think E-Bay is just an Auction website? You are kidding right? Since when can you "Buy it Now" during a real auction? I'm pretty sure there are many of thousands of stores that don't even offer a bidding option for their products, which they have thousands of in stock. The people that give away their items in exchange for money are called "Sellers", not "Auctioners". The two largest sites when it comes to finding items for cheap is Amazon and E-Bay, so "different business models" or not, they compete with each other. Whatever you call it and no matter how large their user-base is or how their number of upset users correlates with their total users, E-Bay still has lousy protection for sellers when it comes to scams or mishaps.
How about you stop cherry-picking the comments you respond to, stop getting butt-hurt and taking this stuff personally and try to resolve these issues. You aren't doing E-Bay any good by attacking people like this.
In the end, can't you figure out that your negative responses are not the logical thing to do?
When you see a comment you want to post on, how about you Please use logic next time, or I'd rather you not post on here anyway.
Now as for your "solutions", eBay has recent introduced an international shipping service in conjunction with Pitney Bowes to have items delivered internationally for sellers. What this does is allows sellers to send the item to eBay's warehouse in the US. Once delivered the seller is then protected and is no longer responsible for shipping to the buyer as eBay will cover the next steps including getting it to customs. We've partnered with many countries to both get tracking all the way to the buyers door step (which didn't happen before), and get it through customs faster so that we can help appease the buyers and provide a smoother transaction. One of the main reasons we started this was because international buyers could easily claim item not received and would then get money back (as tracking didn't go anywhere after customs). So there's a good start to your parcel service.
As far as seller protection, this has also been hit on in many facets, including the new feedback removals, automated returns, internal monitoring/reporting, and a wide variety of other things that are constantly being updated to help protect sellers as well. The problem is (and this ties back in with Amazon vs eBay) that sellers need to understand that eBay is a venue to introduce them to customers. That's literally it, they aren't there to take a loss for you if a customer screws you over (but they do add things in to help prevent and fix this if it does), they aren't there to give you an absolutely no risk factor while selling items. It just isn't something that can be done. For many reasons, including the fact that there are just as many sellers out there looking to scam buyers, as there are buyers trying to scam sellers. eBay is here to introduce sellers to it's market base, and hopefully provide a fast and easy way to sell your items, period. There is always going to be a risk in a business model done over the internet, no matter where you go. When you talk about things like eBay buyer protection, you have to understand that eBay looks at this as third party, we don't see the item shipped/received/broken/packed.
eBay's GSP costs the buyer about double what international shipping normally costs ... this clumsy attempt to squeeze a few more pennies out of the buyer is bound to fail ...
Pitty Pat, you are going to have to lift your game otherwise your are going to go the same way as Hugh Williams and Chris Saridakis, "to spend more time with his family" ...
"We are driving more changes than ever. There are no silver bullets, we're testing in different geos, when we find things that work, we'll do more of them and less of the ones that don't." - John Donahoe (2008) ...
[We have no idea of what we are doing but we are doing it anyway ...]
Pitty Pat, I don't expect you, as a paid eBay shill, to read my case study on shill bidding nor do I expect you to address the allegation of massive auction fraud on consumers that eBay demonstrably aids and abets, as your job, as a paid eBay shill, is to minimize and deflect such criticisms, if you can; but I know one thing, that eBay now demonstrably facilitates such massive and blatantly obvious fraud on its consumers tells me that things are becoming desperate at the 'Bay; pretty soon they will be requiring you to "hot bunk" your cubicle space ...
The ugly reality of eBay Inc.:
eBay's crooked auctions marketplace ... bit.ly/11F2eas
eBay Motors (UK): Auction Fraud Galore ... bit.ly/I2gTEU
eBay's clunky, unscrupulous "PreyPal" ... bit.ly/UVXx53
The ongoing joke of it all ... bit.ly/YvxFEg
Fun quotes from the eBay executive suite ... bit.ly/12xvzyA
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Anon ...
[Regrettably, Johnnny Ho's capabilities appear to be limitless ... bit.ly/YvxFEg]
Your still comparing eBay (a selling venue, regardless of buy it now or auction) to Amazon, which also does venue, they them selves are sellers (who literally kick off their competition and remove sellers who were doing well here to replace them internally), music company, eBook seller, and a multitude of other things. If the scales not tipped heavily in one way, I don't know what else could be irrational about that statement. Sure they compete in some of the same market, there's no denying that. But to compare stocks (which is what I was address above) is a little silly.
And, why am I not surprised at your scripted response; I?ve heard the like of it many times before from other eBay representatives ?
Regardless, the cretinous Johnny Ho was effectively in control of eBay in 2007; see the transcript of his rambling Legg Mason "Thought Leader Forum" interview in September 2007 ... #bit.ly/16McqO1
And, the fact is, they were both ~$40 in August 2007 and Amazon?s share price is now nearly eight times that of eBay?s?eight times !!!
As far as the relativity of the amount of auction fraud by eBay merchants, using nominal-start auctions, on eBay consumers is concerned I will simply invite any reader, contemplating bidding on a professional seller?s nominal-start auction (and I don?t just mean 99c starts) to read my "Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5" and make up their own mind on the basis of the facts presented therein at ... #bit.ly/11F2eas
The fact is, eBay Inc. is demonstrably the greatest knowing and calculated facilitator, and aider and abettor, before and after the fact, of auction fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know ?
How can you tell when an eBay or "PreyPal" spokesperson is being disingenuous? Their lips are moving ?
Now, Pat, back to your cubicle in the eBay Dept of Spin?shill ?
Regardless. is that a promise Pat, that you are going to crawl back into your cubicle in the eBay Dept of Spin, and we are never going to hear from you, or your disingenuous nonsense, again? Can we truly hope ...
Pat, I accept that as an eBay shill you are not interested in knowing anything about the massive auction fraud that eBay facilitates on its auctions. I can only repeat, I invite anyone that may be interested and who many be contemplating bidding on any professional seller's nominal-start auction (and I don't just mean 99c starts), to read my "Shill Bidding Fraud on eBay: Case Study #5" and make up their own mind on the basis of the facts presented therein at ... bit.ly/11F2eas
Clearly, no eBay shill is ever going to admit that such massive fraud exists and that indeed eBay is actively aiding and abetting it to the hilt - so read my case study and make up your own mind ... bit.ly/11F2eas
And I'll say it again, the fact is, eBay Inc. is demonstrably the greatest knowing and calculated facilitator, and aider and abettor, before and after the fact, of auction fraud on consumers that the world is ever likely to know ...
Good article from another frustrated seller.
After a total of over 500 sales on eBay, over a period of about 7 years, the "Buyer" not only lied about receiving an empty envelope, she threatened me to dispute her, then gave me my first negative. eBays policy is to side with the Liar-Buyers because they earn interest on all of the contested sales for an average of 2 to 3 months. It's as simple as that!
eBay makes money when Buyers lie and report empty envelopes! eBay doesn't care about losing Sellers, as new ones appear hourly with our sour ((Thanks to Democrats!)) economy.
The way to win is to create your own website. Surprisingly, if you have a desired item, and you encourage "Word of Mouth" advertising, your over-all costs are far less than the money that eBay hits you with.
I sell "hobby supplies" and offer a 5% perpetual referral to buyers. By being honest with those who refer you by always paying for every new customer, you'll be making business relatively soon. Plus by applying the commission as a credit, it only cost the cost of the product. You're happy, and after several referrals purchase, and the previous buyer turned referral agent / buyer is now very happy, too ... then works even harder. Being honest is key.
oh I guess I have to retype my entire blog here. Let me get started. this may take a while
uk mail show it as signed for and just has my sir name printed , I was away at the time so spect ukmail jeft it on my door step as they have done in the past and it was stolen
where ig gets complicated is I am not a customer of uk mail in fact the person sending it was and even if I manage to get a payout under there insurance it will be the seller that gets the mony
so much for ebay being a safe place to buy , I have in the past been riped off as a seller but first time as a buyer